Twilight Render for Mac - beta testers wanted
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That is exactly what I hate about Mac for Rhino. Developers instead of porting great GUI are now changing it . It is almost new application now. It will end up badly...Just look at the AutoCad for Mac . It is completely new software....useless if you work cross-platform.
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@sepo said:
That is exactly what I hate about Mac for Rhino. Developers instead of porting great GUI are now changing it . It is almost new application now. It will end up badly...Just look at the AutoCad for Mac . It is completely new software....useless if you work cross-platform.
right, i understand what you're saying re: cross platform users.. i suppose in that situation, you'd want both of the apps to be more or less identical..
from a developers/business standpoint, that might not be the best way to look at it though.. I mean, if someone has a windows license for rhino then a mac version becomes available which the user would prefer, they would more likely than not, just transfer their license to mac (i.e.- no new business)from a diehard mac user point of view (and i don't mean apple fanboy.. just people that are completely used to macs etc.), the apps that are straight ports just look bad and generally aren't very popular on mac (kerkythea comes to mind.. i think i opened that app once or maybe twice and never went back
)so for mcneel to do what they're doing with mac rhino, i think, is a smart move.. their windows based users just won't use the mac version if they don't find it appealing.. but they won't be losing any business over it.. while at the same time, they're creating a true mac app which will attract many more mac people than a straight port would.. (i.e.- an entirely new user base.. thousands of new licenses)..
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Kerky isn't a full mac app anyway, like GIMP. (I just wish GIMP had Mac commands-- and there's also the terrible save interface). Isn't SU or PS a better example? There are fewer dissimilarities-- and more the capabilities and lack thereof for each platform. Why does someone want to work in two platforms on the same app anyway?
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Hmm, so I have a twilight license, but no Mac?
So who exactly are you looking for to test this? Jeff makes a great point - if you are making Twilight for Mac - wouldn't you be looking for a totally new user base - I don't think you'll be converting a whole lot of current windoze users. -
No you would not want to convert people but there are people who run windows version on their mac and they would wish to move to mac side.
In my case I teach Rhino and I am finding that even mac users are moaning about mac version not being the same is confusing. I repeat look at the shambles of auto ad for mac. On the other hand look Vectoworks which looks same on both platforms ...real joy. -
@sepo said:
No you would not want to convert people but there are people who run windows version on their mac and they would wish to move to mac side.
In my case I teach Rhino and I am finding that even mac users are moaning about mac version not being the same is confusing. I repeat look at the shambles of auto ad for mac. On the other hand look Vectoworks which looks same on both platforms ...real joy.well, vectorworks went mac -> windows instead of windows 1st
most of the moans on mac rhino so far (that i'm aware of) is lack of commands etc being hooked up.. marlin has barely even scratched the surface regarding the UI for mac rhino.. once he gets to that phase (cashmere), i think a lot of the moans will cease.. at this point, they're just getting everything hooked up and running smooth (and v5 is still in beta even on the windows side)… once v5 is released, i think we'll see a lot of improvements re: the UI.
basically, photoshop is the best as far as dual platforms go.. but they coded almost everything , including the toolbars, where as most apps just tie into what's available via the OS.. it takes a giant company like adobe to pull that off though.
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but hey.. twilight mostly works inside of sketchup, right?
if that's the case, then everything should be A-ok because for the most part, sketchup is nice and mac-like on mac...
you can do most of indigo's setup inside of sketchup to which is good.. once you're in the actual indigo app, on mac, things start looking/acting weird… but since i don't have to spend much time in the actual app, no biggie..
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@unknownuser said:
but hey.. twilight mostly works inside of sketchup, right?
if that's the case, then everything should be A-ok because for the most part, sketchup is nice and mac-like on mac...
you can do most of indigo's setup inside of sketchup to which is good.. once you're in the actual indigo app, on mac, things start looking/acting weird… but since i don't have to spend much time in the actual app, no biggie..
I really do not care for that so called mac look . I just do not want to go and spend uneccessery time learning new GUI for the sake of it. If something works than it something works. Also I can,t see developers are gaining anything but making two different sets of GUI.... Sorry but I see it being irrelevant. If it works do not brake it .
The point of Vectorworks is not where it was ported first but that it is the same...
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@sepo said:
I just do not want to go and spend uneccessery time learning new GUI for the sake of it.
right.. that's exactly the point i'm getting at…
on mac, all the apps are more or less the same UI (or can be)…
i can use safari, then keynote, then sketchup and everything is more-or-less the same look/location/shortcut/function/etc (when applicable)
so when i open some app with a wonky (well, you might think it's a great UI but..) GUI then it's a turn off..
like this:
ugh.. no thanks.. i don't want to learn an entire new interface just for the sake of rendering.. if they set thea up using a more standard mac interface then it'd be much more welcoming..
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@sepo said:
Also I can,t see developers are gaining anything but making two different sets of GUI.... Sorry but I see it being irrelevant. If it works do not brake it .
what the developers have to gain from it is more sales… believe it or not, there are actually a hellofalotta people using macs these days.
using thea again.. for me to use thea, not only do i have to learn how to use the parameters etc, i basically have to re learn how to use a computer in general.. the latter, to me, is much more unwelcoming than the former..
so the thea devs are probably sitting around thinking "see, we made this mac port but barely anybody is using it.. therefore, macs are still irrelevant" (or whatever).. when in reality, a lot of mac users have looked at it and don't want to use it because it's not a mac app.. if it were, then i bet it'd be much more popular on mac.
going into a mac port with the idea "hey, this is a great UI on windows so we'll make the mac version the same.. And hey, mac UI is stupid so we aren't going to make it like that" (or whatever) is just shooting yourself in the foot.. while i understand you may like the windows UI, i and many others don't and that's why we don't use windows to begin with..
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What exactly is so un-Mac about Thea?
Looks fine to me?
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Jeff, not sure what your point about Thea is - I see the same (imo bad) interface on Windows - that has nothing to do with Mac. Having to learn a whole new GUI is what turned me off of Thea too. The Twilight interface on the other hand is simple (if limited in functionality) and well integrated within Sketchup. If they are able to bring that simplicity to Mac, everyone should be happy.
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@unknownuser said:
@sepo said:
I just do not want to go and spend uneccessery time learning new GUI for the sake of it.
right.. that's exactly the point i'm getting at…
on mac, all the apps are more or less the same UI (or can be)…
i can use safari, then keynote, then sketchup and everything is more-or-less the same look/location/shortcut/function/etc (when applicable)
so when i open some app with a wonky (well, you might think it's a great UI but..) GUI then it's a turn off..
like this:
[attachment=0:wt75gaa1]<!-- ia0 -->screen 2012-04-20 at 1.45.52 PM.jpg<!-- ia0 -->[/attachment:wt75gaa1]
ugh.. no thanks.. i don't want to learn an entire new interface just for the sake of rendering.. if they set thea up using a more standard mac interface then it'd be much more welcoming..
Firstly it is not true that all apps are asme on mac...each has it,s own quirk ...and for SU on mac I would say it is quite clunky and unituitive. I teach both rhino and SU at University and in our studios We have dual boot macs. I know both world.
That comment on thea GUI is unfounded. If you want one button or two button renderer than go for one like that....thea maybe not easiest software to master but GUI is very intuitive.Let's not get into this any further. I will not change my position and you will not change yours. I actually have iPad, MacBook pro and octo mac desktop pro and I do things on both side as both my laptop and desktop are dual boot. I understand where you comming from. You speak as typical mac person and that is ok. For me I see good and bad side of the both platforms.
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@unknownuser said:
What exactly is so un-Mac about Thea?
Looks fine to me?
for starters, there's no toolbar which should be where all those buttons scattered about need to be.. and what the heck are all those folders along the bottom? is that how I'm supposed to navigate the HD??
..and that's just scratching the surface..
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@andybot said:
Jeff, not sure what your point about Thea is - I see the same (imo bad) interface on Windows - that has nothing to do with Mac. Having to learn a whole new GUI is what turned me off of Thea too. The Twilight interface on the other hand is simple (if limited in functionality) and well integrated within Sketchup. If they are able to bring that simplicity to Mac, everyone should be happy.
Twilight gui looks same on mac...if not broken do not mend it.....jeff sorry about some funny typo in the last reply....joy of typing on IPad.
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@sepo said:
I understand where you comming from. You speak as typical mac person and that is ok.
i mean, you're saying a lot of the things i'm saying so i don't see how we're in such a disagreement..
i am a typical mac person and i'm saying things that typical mac people might say.. we're snobs, or dorks, or unsophisticated, or whatever… but, if you're making an app aimed at a typical mac person then it should cater to them regardless of how dumb the UI may seem to you.. otherwise, you're not going to be picking up many new customers..
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@unknownuser said:
@sepo said:
I understand where you comming from. You speak as typical mac person and that is ok.
i mean, you're saying a lot of the things i'm saying so i don't see how we're in such a disagreement..
i am a typical mac person and i'm saying things that typical mac people might say.. we're snobs, or dorks, or unsophisticated, or whatever… but, if you're making an app aimed at a typical mac person then it should cater to them regardless of how dumb the UI may seem to you.. otherwise, you're not going to be picking up many new customers..
The point is not in having superficial matching software....it is like deciding to by skies because they match your jacket. Successful GUI is platform indipendent....The success of the software depends on the market niche among the other things. When I say you give typical mac angle....reallly it was not compliment...most of the people running macs use it as accessory rather than tool and have this undividing following which in my mind is funny at least to say. ...As I said before I have macs but I needed to install windows for some serious work which was not available on mac side.... I still wish auacad for mac never happened in the form it had and I pray that Rhino does not end up looking funny....
No bad vibes from me...only objective observation. -
@sepo said:
When I say you give typical mac angle....reallly it was not compliment...most of the people running macs use it as accessory rather than tool and have this undividing following which in my mind is funny at least to say. ...As I said before I have macs but I needed to install windows for some serious work which was not available on mac side.... I still wish auacad for mac never happened in the form it had and I pray that Rhino does not end up looking funny....
No bad vibes from me...only objective observation.i didn't take it as a compliment.. in fact, i took it as an insult which you further elaborated on in the above passage..
and that's fine.. you're certainly not the first person to carry that tune and won't be the last..
likewise, when i open an app and it's obvious the creator of said app carries that same attitude, then it's a big 'go screw yourself.. i'm not giving you any money'.. i mean, you spent a few thousand hours or more making this app for windows and then decide you'll just hack something together to make it work on mac.. those type of ports are obvious within the first 5 seconds of opening said app.. i'll pass..
if i open an app and it's obvious the creator uses macs not only because the have to (teaching, programming, etc), but also because they prefer it and there for tie into a lot of the possibilities OS X has to offer (even if we're talking toolbar styles, dialogs, etc) then hey.. let's do business..
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@sepo said:
Twilight gui looks same on mac...if not broken do not mend it
So you've had a chance to look at the Mac beta? If its the same as the existing Windows GUI - then it sounds like it's more just testing compatibility than any grand sort of re-design. Which makes this whole "I'm a true Mac user" seem rather OT... There's only so many ways to dress up those five buttons
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@andybot said:
@sepo said:
Twilight gui looks same on mac...if not broken do not mend it
So you've had a chance to look at the Mac beta? If its the same as the existing Windows GUI - then it sounds like it's more just testing compatibility than any grand sort of re-design. Which makes this whole "I'm a true Mac user" seem rather OT... There's only so many ways to dress up those five buttons[off:1cldo02a]of course it's all off topic.. look at the top post.. it's an announcement and any (meaningful/helpful) subsequent discussion should occur at the twilight forums.. fletch could of locked the topic (well, i guess he can't ) and it would of been just as effective.. except, at least, the OT banter bumps the thread so maybe more people might see it and go to the appropriate discussion..
the twilight discussion left the building early in the thread.. i already said that i imagine twilight probably won't be much different than using sketchup..
the rest, at least my contributions, has been from the position of a consumer.. and why i (and a least a couple of million other people) may or may not decide to buy into an app.. maybe my reasoning is imagined or doesn't follow proper logic or whatever but it's still there.. devs can either choose to listen to my pov or not.. it doesn't matter.. but if they want my money then they should listen..
re: the whole 'insult the mac user' thing.. i understand that too… i'm probably worse than a lot of people when it comes to that type of crap.. i've been a skateboarder for 25+ years.. show me some kook rollerblading or scooter_ing down the street and i'll be the first to rip on him.. give them the whole "you can be serious on those things.. you can't be passionate about that.. what a joke.. etc.."
point being.. a lot of this thread, at least for me, might be arguing for the sake of arguing..
maybe it signals that i need to lay off the internet for a week or two
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