Has the 3D Warehouse died or is it just me?
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I agree with the thoughts about 3DWH in the first couple of posts and would like to add one more. SU has been around long enough for users to get some skill and experience, that means more effort and complexity us going into the models being made. Maybe the 10 MB limit prevents some from being uploaded, maybe some aren't as willing to share their hard work knowing they'll get nothing for it but leeches. I have a model up that was downloaded almost 8,000 times before it got a star rating.
As far as a SCF warehouse, that sound like a great idea. It would provide a resource for quality models and I suggest that it could generate money for the site. Charge downloaders a reasonable flat fee per model, don't panic yet my fellow underpaid... Allow contributors credits for uploading models, I.e share a model, get credited x model downloads in return. That way the site gets some monetary support, those of us without a lot of cash can get some nice models for a little work on our part and the warehouse would grow.
The trouble is policing it and verifying model quality.
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I use the WH, quite a bit in my business, and I agree with Pete (solo) it needs to be controlled and regulated, there is entirely too much CRAP on it.
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@patrickbateman said:
It seems like the 3D warehouse hasn't grown much
As far as I experienced, 3D Warehouse is almost exploding of models. It's hard to get numbers, but with some Google research you get at least 5 million unique models.
But it's true that most models are not useful for re-use, there are many beginner models, some good geo-models and too many Building Maker models, there are lots of children uploading every day several baublery models etc.
What we need is maybe a directory of quality models that are suitable for rendering and a set of criteria what models can be added to the directory. 3D Warehouse has unlimited storage (but 10MB per model) and a fast server infrastructure and search engine so it wouldn't make sense to create a competing site from scratch.
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The only 3DWH models I've actually used in projects have been appliances and than goodness I don't need them very often. The ones I've used have clearly be converted from 3D CAD or other files and are obese with unneeded hidden lines and internal "junk". I end up spending a lot of time cleaning them up but at least they are already the right size.
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I definitely like the idea of the Sketchucation Model Repository.
How about a ratio system. You need to maintain a certain give and take ratio in order to have downloading access to models. You have to give one for every two you take or something. Also a mandatory rating system. If you haven't rated your previous download, you temporarily lose downloading privileges until you add the rating. If a model gets more than 10 minimum ratings, then it's removed.
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we discussed this idea before... I like it... but the cost of offering that many downloads and uploads would cost a lot.
but if you guys wanna give it try I'm down to help. I have a few ideas on how to offset costs or even pay people per model.
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Cool, looks like a plan is coming together.
Just remember it has to be original content (we do not wanna deal with lawyers).
I'd also suggest having a section for materials, again only original stuff.
Maybe even, Vismats, visopts, Theamats, styles, etc.
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How about a system whereby you lease space on a server. The larger your collection the more it costs. But you keep 100% of the sale. You can raise/lower your size as needed. This would prevent you having unwanted models sitting there?
The main thing here is you control your pricing. You can offer services etc.
It could be invite based so we know the quality is kosher.
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i would be game for any system as long as it is not this. . .
Anybody got a good dishwasher model in here?? -
@earthmover said:
I definitely like the idea of the Sketchucation Model Repository.
How about a ratio system. You need to maintain a certain give and take ratio in order to have downloading access to models. You have to give one for every two you take or something. Also a mandatory rating system. If you haven't rated your previous download, you temporarily lose downloading privileges until you add the rating. If a model gets more than 10 minimum ratings, then it's removed.
I think giving a lot of requirements would be prohibitive. I think by nature that it would be from the sketchucation community would weed out most of the crap and encourage people to share. I don't think a ratio system or restrictions should be in place. Maybe have a one-time mandatory upload before you can download anything and get access? So every user would have to upload a quality model and have it get approved before gaining access to download anything.
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The question is, how long will it take for a SCF certified model to wind up in the 3DWH with some snot nosed prick taking full credit for it?
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@patrickbateman said:
I think giving a lot of requirements would be prohibitive. I think by nature that it would be from the sketchucation community would weed out most of the crap and encourage people to share. I don't think a ratio system or restrictions should be in place. Maybe have a one-time mandatory upload before you can download anything and get access? So every user would have to upload a quality model and have it get approved before gaining access to download anything.
The point is to stop the leeching. It's essentially time sharing. A professionals time spent on giving something away is time not spent earning money. If it is reciprocal then it's not just time spent to provide the lazy with a means take and profit from anothers generosity. I mean let's face it, there is a whole arm of the 3D industry that does nothing more than build boxes and fill it full of stuff they've leeched or pirated. To them 3D visualization is like playing with a doll house and rearranging furniture. In the end, the clients have no idea, but the integrity of the industry suffers greatly.
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@unknownuser said:
The point is to stop the leeching. It's essentially time sharing. A professionals time spent on giving something away is time not spent earning money. If it is reciprocal then it's not just time spent to provide the lazy with a means take and profit from anothers generosity. I mean let's face it, there is a whole arm of the 3D industry that does nothing more than build boxes and fill it full of stuff they've leeched or pirated. To them 3D visualization is like playing with a doll house and rearranging furniture. In the end, the clients have no idea, but the integrity of the industry suffers greatly
Well said, and I totally agree.
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I think we can pay each modeler to build a lot of the models and then give them away for free...
you ask how could such craziness work?
if you go and search as an architect might while deciding what door to use in your next model. you might search Pella's website, Jen-Weld, Andersen... yada yada... every construction product manufacturer on the planet pays someone to model every product they produce, if they don't they're planning on it. if you search the websites I mentioned you'll find their models don't represent the product well or are not available in sketchup format. for instance on interior door, one style has some 88 variations of itself. 6' 7' and 8' heights, 1' through 6' width variations... not to mention sub styles. and this is just one door from one company in one style. I have tested myself building a set of these doors and can finish the 88 in about an hour. once you have the style done, editing it to different sizes is fairly quick. now if you charged a company $10 for each door; that would be $880 for the set. now different products are going to have different modeling times.
this would pay the individual modeler and give a profit region for SCF and even perhaps allow us to lean on the various product company servers for our downloads. they will of course be hosting the models on their own servers, so we could hard link to the files in our database and allow search here without hosting.
with the professionals here devising a set of model standards and the power of the SCF community to point future users to this collection and thus their products... I think it could be a great way to accomplish a few goals simultaneously.
- allowing work hungry modelers to get paid
- building a repository of clean, professional models
- expanding the SCF community
- cleaning up product website models and making architectural modeling easier on everyone.
- expanding the foot print of sketchup in the professional world.
of course this idea would need a sales staff of sorts approaching companies and offering the service and then someone assigning the work list and people arguing about who gets what work...
I don't know... what do you think?
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@krisidious said:
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of course this idea would need a sales staff of sorts approaching companies and offering the service and then someone assigning the work list and people arguing about who gets what work...
You may be interested in this topic and its accompanying web site from three years ago.
You are right (although I think your idea in quotes is a bit wonky) but be prepared for some irrational rants about advertising and webdialogs as I got in similar topics around that time.
But good luck - it might just happen if people can accept necessary commercial reality.
I am trying from a different perspective based on very similar ideas.
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Much as I hate to rain on your parade guys, this has been tried before...and failed.
The original PushPullBar had exactly such a system, called the Component Depot. To discourage leechers you had to earn brownie points in order to be able to download anything. These points were earned by making meaningful contributions to the other forums...architectural discussions, tutorials etc.
They eventually abandoned it because they got so much hassle from newbies simply registering in order to help themselves, then constantly bitching when they found they couldn't.FormFonts already runs another sharing section...which does not require the purchase of a subscription. It's called the Exchange; and that's what it is. You upload models of your own and earn download points to enable you to access the models of others. It differs from the Warehouse in that all submissions are vetted...as they have to be if you are going to have any kind of quality control over the content. To be honest, it's pretty much ground to a halt...not because of lack of submissions; quite the reverse; I shudder at the size of the current approvals queue.
The reason is that it is sadly impossible to overstate the laziness and venality of the average SketchUp user. Despite a EULA (which you have to agree to) stating quite explicitly that all content must be your own work and of a pro quality, well over 90% of it isn't...and that requires a helluva lot of weeding out. We get all the usual pirated content from Dosch, Lowpolygon3D etc that you get on the Warezhouse. We even get our own content posted back to us. Some of the posters are even too F+++ing lazy to get rid of the primary, obvious tiers of branding...like the default FormFonts layer that the model is on.
Most of the rest of the stuff that isn't pirated is simply imported manufacturers' CAD models, like B&B Italia. I say 'simply imported' because that's exactly what it is...it isn't cleaned up; it isn't polyreduced; it isn't de-triangulated...or even smoothed in some cases. A sizeable percentage aren't even the correct scale. It's quite common to have a sofa half a mile long. Many models are submitted unpurged...with hundreds of materials and dozens of other models included. I could go on and on. but in simple terms you get buried under an avalanche of all the stuff you avoid on the Warehouse....in fact most of it will be from the Warehouse.
Needless to say, it takes quite a while to check over any new submission for all such possible defects...even before you start checking on its provenance to avoid legal action from commercial suppliers. Good Luck guys.You may have some success with a select collection by and for serious professionals...all the usual suspects that keep these boards alive, but TBH you could probably do much the same with a Google+ group. As for approaching manufacturers, you'll have a little catching up to do.
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Great points Alan and nice to hear some advice from someone established in this area.
I think the merit in this discussion is that there's a willingness to make something a bit different than normal. I'd even go so far as to say a Freemason's 3D Society so as to prevent the situation of 3DWH and FF (to a small degree).
Maybe Freemason is a bit OTT more a SCF Premium Members Marketplace called Builderberg
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Count me out. I'm not modelling wearing a pinny and with my trouser leg rolled up. I'm quite happy the way I am...stark naked.
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@ Alan Fraser
As for approaching manufacturers, you'll have a little catching up to do.
As this is my special interest I would like to add something about it. First of all I would not approach manufacturers but specifiers ... for them to say "if you want me to consider your product you will have to submit models and data like this" - i.e. the manufacturer is responsible for the quality of any model and data supplied. In return manufacturers get the opportunity to present products at the right time and in the right place. If some models escape well any publicity is better than none. I think, Alan, what Formfonts provides is very good for making models whereas what I (and I think Kris) want is to use models in order to create the real thing. A little different I think you will agree.
@modelhead
you will put me out of work...
I have always liked reading your posts, particularly as you seem to like to add a little dottiness. But I wonder if here you have added too much when the whole thrust is to expand modelwork at the expense of paperwork type processes.
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Just note that our Woodworking forum does maintain a SCF Woodworking collection on the 3D Warehouse.
The 3D Warehouse has several nice features that could allow it to be used as a private, commercial repository.
- Collections of models and Collections of Collections.
- Shared models, shared collections
- Share as viewers or as collaborators
- Collaborators
- Model history
There would be some amount of labor involved in curating the collection and administering who can access the collection, but it is manageable (especially if the work is divided between several team members.)
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