Sketchup 64 bit?
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@unknownuser said:
I wish Trimble would realize how lucky they are to have such a devoted user community. I also believe that the more devoted the community is the more it should be included not excluded.
That's a nice way to put it.
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@pixero said:
Just think of how many great ideas could come if Trimble "sat down" with us and asked: "What can we do to make your everyday life easier?"
Like BaseCamp?
Like Reddit?
Like the feature request thread on the Google forum?The thing is, I think many people would like them to say in advance what will be released next round. Which I fully understand any developer to hold back. Because it's really hard to predict what will make it into the next release. Something might crop up that makes implementation take longer, maybe it has to be scrapped because it caused unforeseen consequences.
Expecting them to reveal in advance what will be included is a dead end.
I do think they have several channels where they do listen. ("Listen" doesn't mean they will do everything that is mentioned.)
I was not really wowed by the features implemented under the Google reign. Sure, there was some nice ones, but considering the time SketchUp was owned by Google I had somewhat expected more to develop - one thing is the modelling tools another is the API and docs. But as information has come out after Google it's clear that Google wasn't throwing resources after the product - only enough to build what they needed for their mapping services.
Now with Trimble, we've yet to see a full release, but we do know there will be one each year. So at least that's some predictability - as before you never really had a clue. It also indicate increased development. And they even announced several positions after the Trimble acquisition - meaning their expected workload is increasing. And at BaseCamp they said that Layout would receive more attention - a product nearly laid dead under Google.
So, I'm excited about this next SketchUp release, but even more so for the 2014 release - because that will give an indication to the direction and changes SketchUp will make and it would have given this new Trimble team time to settle in.
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@thomthom said:
The thing is, I think many people would like them to say in advance what will be released next round. Which I fully understand any developer to hold back. Because it's really hard to predict what will make it into the next release. Something might crop up that makes implementation take longer, maybe it has to be scrapped because it caused unforeseen consequences.
Expecting them to reveal in advance what will be included is a dead end.
There are several software companies that are more open about such things.
There can be roadmaps, tech news and such without specifying a date when a certain feature will be released.
Thea Render is one, just to mention an example.Hey, even Adobe and Autodesk has "labs" with technology previews.
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Guys,
I see this debate has moved to the question of disclosure and communication with the user-base!
Someone said that @Last did not disclose in advance what was to come, not exactly so! I distinctly remember attending one of the BaseCamps when quite a few intended new directions were indicated and demo'd on the big screen! Some made it into the subsequent release, some didn't, at least it opened up opinion, debate and created buzz! There was no one too disappointed that certain things indicated didn't make it and everyone loved the buzz
In my humble opinion there are two reasons a company / manufacturer will not make know what it has in the pipeline, either the new product is so innovative that it doesn't what to let the cat out on the bag in fear that it could be upstaged / copied by others or they simply don't have anything much exciting in mind!
The new trend these days, even adopted by Apple if what I read can be believed, is to 'leak' information. The new iWatch for example! There is some method in this 'madness', it creates a buzz rather than moaning and groaning ..... like we have here on this particular thread!
We won't have to wait too much longer to find out which it is, ground breaking or mundane! I understand the next release of SketchUp and its siblings, if they materialize, will be called SketchUp (flavor) 2013 etc ...... there are only 10 months left in 2013 and I imagine we will not be seeing a last minute release ...... then again there is not even a release date set in stone. No deadlines equals no decisions made!
Whoever is in charge of 'buzz creation' at Trimble SketchUp, if anyone, needs to look at the situation with new eyes. They are missing a golden opportunity! I am at their service should they need advise / assistance
Mike
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Oh, we can't leak what we know, and we can't leak what we don't know.
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It's less about leaking and more about throwing bones.
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ThomThom has been one of the most adamant supporters of converting SketchUp to 64bit... I'm sure he'll let us know when it comes out... </sarc> Until then I'll concentrate on other matters. Like how many more plugins I can stuff in this fat hawg.
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@solo said:
It's less about leaking and more about throwing bones.
Even a blind dog stumbles across a bone now and then!
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imo:
calling for the suTeam to let us know what we'll see in the next version doesn't really 'fix' anything.. for one, all we do is basically move the timescale around a bit.. (i.e.- we all know what's coming in su9 so now we're sitting around talking about su10 instead.. same thing only we're left projecting even further into the future)..
for two though.. if i put myself in their shoes and people were barraging me with stuff like "do your project my way.. tell me what i want to know about it.. etcetc" .. i'd seriously be like STFUMFS!
[edit] well, actually.. if they were my clients.. i'd feel a lot more open to including them in the process..
[/edit]i mean, they do it their way and a compromise between users would be a lot more than just letting us know what's to be included in the next version.. other developers which are more inline with suggestions in the thread have a completely different approach all together which allows the users to actually be an integral part of the development process.. and i can appreciate those approaches but if i'm being honest, I myself would probably go more the route of how the suTeam does it.. I don't want people all up in my project.. it's my project you know and i generally want to have a good amount of control over it...
now, where my approach leaves the people actually using the stuff i build... i dunno.. is it the best design for them? possibly not.. am i satisfied with it? usually..
but if i didn't do it my way to begin with, it probably wouldn't even of happened...hmm.. that's ^ supposed to be saying something.. not quite sure i nailed it though..
[EDIT] anyway.. all things considered, i think Solo has the best idea..
come on.. throw a dog a bone every now and then..
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You failed.....epically
STFUMFS
The STFU part i get but the MFS? Is that what I think it is? Like the old Prince song?
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@rich o brien said:
You failed.....epically
STFUMFS
The STFU part i get but the MFS? Is that what I think it is? Like the old Prince song?
hahah
it's some pretty hardcore cussing going on there.. you got the milder parts at least
[but the S is only there to make the MF plural]
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@Jeffrey
Coulda just used gobshitesI don't think many here are asking for 'what's next?' In fact the main participants are licenced power users...
It's morphed away from 64bit to a more 'We need A to be fixed because it's a big flow blocker' or 'why is B still rumbling around 4yrs after asking to fix it'
I'd love an opportunity to vent, discuss and provide exceptional data to a dev. Thomthom often sees videos I capture for various little snippits I think SU should achieve outta the bag. These aren't crazy far flung ideas but basic modeling needs that benefit users.
A good brainstorming session far outweighs a pitch and critique type scenario. Even if 80% of the ideas suggested were binned that 20% is worth more than the 100%.
At least in my mind it is....
I love watching people modeling in SU. It's the most valuable experience to see a power users perform complex task through a series operations. Now imagine getting to see that from a dev's perspective. It might spark an idea, introduce a new convention or just be a liberating experience for both parties.
It's a great way to build momentum. You really need to move past the 64bit argument and get down business of not critiquing but brainstorming.
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I agree Rich, it's not about one thing or what we think is the answer to everything, at least not for me, I just want SU to be a little more robust, handle a little more of what I throw at it, grow with me and not me grow out of it.
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@solo said:
I agree Rich, it's not about one thing or what we think is the answer to everything, at least not for me, I just want SU to be a little more robust, handle a little more of what I throw at it, grow with me and not me grow out of it.
can people outgrow the software? ...yes, absolutely..
something else i see happening though is that it's not always a case of outgrowing it.. it's more a case of realizing there are easier (sometimes A Lot easier) ways to do what you're trying to do..
and for an app being generally touted as 'easy', it's not really so.. -
@rich o brien said:
I'd love an opportunity to vent, discuss and provide exceptional data to a dev. Thomthom often sees videos I capture for various little snippits I think SU should achieve outta the bag. These aren't crazy far flung ideas but basic modeling needs that benefit users.
+1 to that. Watching other people work gives me new ideas to my own workflow. I wish. There was more people making videos while they model with SketchUp. I feel there is more material out there for other packages.
I have watched a few videos from Rich when he model, testing my plugins. He makes lots of comments while he model about what could be better which helps me greatly. But I also find great value in just watching as even just that gives me many ideas for new tools.
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@unknownuser said:
something else i see happening though is that it's not always a case of outgrowing it.. it's more a case of realizing there are easier (sometimes A Lot easier) ways to do what you're trying to do..
and maybe 'easy' is the wrong word here.. faster is more the right word..
and in some cases, a lot faster.. (due to a more robust toolset)*i mean, the biggest user concern in sketchup is seemingly it's speed..
but why does speed have to always be about how many calculations sketchup can make in one second?
re: free vs pro..
wanna make a key distinction between the two? suFree maintains todays vanilla tools.. pro has a pro toolset..you get to keep the SU is easy&simple&slim concept via the free version.. but the term pro typically says the user desires a more powerful set of tools and they'd also be more willing&able to learn and use more tools..
[and the pro version would have the option to run the normal toolset mode as well.. but you get the importexports and layout etc..]and in my mind, "that's what plugins are for" just doesn't quite cut it.. i don't think the devs had this in mind at the time but when they made solid tools (a tool that was once a premium plugin became a native tool), they showed us the difference between a plugin and an official tool.. their version is +100.. (but that doesn't mean stop there on the solid tools boys.. they can still get a little more luv
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I dónt know about 32 or 64 bit
What I think is that the Pro version has to get much faster for exploding and saving , if it wants to stay alive .If that means that the SketchUp core has to be modified deeply and that that costs a lot of money ,
well then
that would be the difference between Pro and Free .
I would not mind to pay more for that , at all .
But the next version has to address the speeding issue , quite a lot .
I think . -
I don't think it's economical to maintain two or more core engines (old for free, new for pro). Whatever will be further differentiating the Pro version, it will neither be single vs. multicore nor 32bit vs. 64bit or any other performance improvements at the core level. It would contradict the "SketchUp as a platform" plan.
So it could be Pro toolsets, importers, model&project management (xrefs?)... cloud and mobile services that free users wouldn't need...
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If they switch to 64 bit, don't they then have to maintain both the 32 bit and the 64 bit code? There are still lots of 32 bit machines out there. so its not a simple upgrade to the code and move on. Its adding an entire other code base to maintain. Sure they code's will be fairly similar, but still, that sounds like a logistical headache. I wonder how other companies handle that.
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@aerilius said:
I don't think it's economical to maintain two or more core engines (old for free, new for pro). Whatever will be further differentiating the Pro version, it will neither be single vs. multicore nor 32bit vs. 64bit or any other performance improvements at the core level. It would contradict the "SketchUp as a platform" plan.
So it could be Pro toolsets, importers, model&project management (xrefs?)... cloud and mobile services that free users wouldn't need...
Absolutely true.
@chris fullmer said:
If they switch to 64 bit, don't they then have to maintain both the 32 bit and the 64 bit code? There are still lots of 32 bit machines out there. so its not a simple upgrade to the code and move on. Its adding an entire other code base to maintain. Sure they code's will be fairly similar, but still, that sounds like a logistical headache. I wonder how other companies handle that.
This is true, too. However I am starting to wonder how they will be beta testing a "legacy 32 bit version" in a year or two. Most of the beta testers also use SU professionally which means they need to keep up with hardware changes more than just grandpa who got my old machine to play with.*
OR they will only release new versions on the 64 bit platform after a while?
*To make sure I do not mean to hurt any grandpas here: it was this month when I finally got rid of my 32 bit XP as my main "production machine" and switched to a 64 bit Win 8. And even this was only because my computer crashed and I needed a complete reinstall (with some hardware changes, too, as my HD and video card got completely wrecked).
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