Recruiting for another Project -- need a modeler/mentor
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Greetings
I am the project manager/chief propeller head for an open source hardware project for which I am seeking help. The project focus is the creation of an aircraft anyone can fly (no license required) using mostly off-the-shelf parts. Briefly, this is a 4 wheeled, single seat cart which flies under a parachute at an airspeed of approx 15-30mph. The nth prototype is almost complete and ready for its first flight. This project has been going on for 2+ years. One of the project goals is to release plans/diagrams/models under a creative commons license. Very early on in the project I chose to use SketchUp for the modeling due to the Google's allowing of free downloading of the application for viewing or further modification of the drawings. I have a basic model done in SketchUp, but would really like to collaborate with someone who already knows the intricacies and vagaries of the software to 'do it right' the first time. I have so many questions that I really don't even know where to start. Thusly, I am casting this net to see if anyone would be interested in collaborating in the modeling of this aircraft. If I can't get someone to actually do the drawings, I could use a mentor.
I have a sourceforge project page at http://sourceforge.net/projects/pbfthunderbolt/
In the files section is an earlier version of an attempt by me at modeling the craft in SketchUp. This is a model of which I am not particularly proud, but it was intended to be a placeholder until a better model came along: http://sourceforge.net/projects/pbfthunderbolt/files/PBF%20ThunderBolt%20Design%20Drawings/PBF%20Thunderbolt.8.1.8.skp/download
If this project interests anyone, I urge you to contact me to get involved. I will monitor this thread.
You can also just give a 'heck ya!' if you think this is a cool idea!
Thanks
Mike Phillips
Phillips Brothers Thrust Merchants -
Hi Mike,
Welcome to SCF.
Interesting project. Why don't you post some pics and even where you're having difficulty modeling. People here love a challenge
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@unknownuser said:
Interesting project. Why don't you post some pics and even where you're having difficulty modeling. People here love a challenge
I agree. I would suggest using the 3D Warehouse to host the model. It has some nice features for access control and keeps a revision history of the model changes.
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Here's a image of the current model. The model contains no images or prints which raises some questions such as "Do you have a design already, or did you mean for someone to design this thing for you?"
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@jim said:
@unknownuser said:
Interesting project. Why don't you post some pics and even where you're having difficulty modeling. People here love a challenge
I agree. I would suggest using the 3D Warehouse to host the model. It has some nice features for access control and keeps a revision history of the model changes.
Excellent idea. This is EXACTLY why I posted this here.
Thanks
Mike
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@jim said:
Here's a image of the current model. The model contains no images or prints which raises some questions such as "Do you have a design already, or did you mean for someone to design this thing for you?"
[attachment=0:22ke4ujr]<!-- ia0 -->PBF Thunderbolt.8.1.png<!-- ia0 -->[/attachment:22ke4ujr]
To answer an earlier question about the pictures, where I am having difficulty, and yours...; I have a design already, I have a need for the modeling. There are some earlier photos at the beginning of the video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSSozFKABZE
I am reluctant to link to that as the design has changed somewhat from those earlier pics in the video. Most notably, it is now a quad instead of a trike and the cage has had a total redesign.
I think where I am struggling with SketchUp (besides some of the basic mechanics) is higher level type stuff like when to make something a component or a group. I've read and watched a few tutorials, but just have not quite grasped the concept. Simple things really, but things that will affect the model fundamentally. Example-- I need two rear wheels that are mirror images of each other. I know how to make a mirror copy, but how do I group them (propbaly a bad choice of terms there)? The design allows for different styles of wheels to be used (huge balloon tires like the beginning of the video, or skinny run flats, like later in the video. Should I do these as layers so they can be turned off an on? That's the kinda stuff I need help with. I would love to just work with someone to give them the dimensions of the components (example 1" square Al tube .125 wall thickness) and have them create and place the components ( perhaps another bad choice of words) relative to the other bits.
I started putting all my dimensions in another layer-- Is his best practice? Can layers be grouped?
Mike
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Some further questions:
The design consists primarily of only a few basic materials: Square Aluminum tubing of two different thicknesses, square steel tubing of two different thicknesses, Aluminum round tubing of a single type, and steel tubing of a single type.
Should I only create 1 component of Aluminum tubing of each type and then duplicate that throughout as needed? example: the vertical square tubes are the same material. But they are different lengths and have bolt holes in different places. Do I create a generic square tube and just modify it as required?
My seat is from Jegs:
http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS/555/70200/10002/-1
Should I model that separately, and somehow include that in my model? How would I do that?The attachment hardware ( screws, nuts, bolts etc) are common stuff. Should I somehow use an existing drawing, imported into mine, duplicated as needed?
Is sketchUp a good place or tool create or maintain a parts list? example - you will need qty 54 of 1/4 28tpi nuts similar to (not exact, just a quick link for illustration):http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/details?mid=9177b05c1a4001e546440583ca66a6ee&ct=mdrm&prevstart=0
My cage starts as straight tubing that I put through a bender. I do not need to illustrate how I do this, but is that the best way to create the model of it? Is it possible to 'bend' tubing in Sketchup? For a single bend, would it be better to 'connect' two straight pieces?
Sorry for all the questions---
I am all about collaboration- perhaps it would be best to schedule a real-time webcast ala goto-meeting or something??
Mike
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@powerranger123 said:
Some further questions:
Is sketchUp a good place or tool create or maintain a parts list? example - you will need qty 54 of 1/4 28tpi nuts similar to (not exact, just a quick link for illustration):http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/details?mid=9177b05c1a4001e546440583ca66a6ee&ct=mdrm&prevstart=0Yes, you can use a [url=http://lumberjocks.com/daltxguy/blog/18422:1kw4w92h]free plugin[/url:1kw4w92h] to generate a parts list, just be sure to use components and name each to something that makes sense.
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@powerranger123 said:
when to make something a component or a group.
Being a mechanical person, I think you might know intuitively how to use Groups/Components. I would draw the thing just like you would build it physically. So draw a part, then make it a Component. Use Components over Groups, but especially if a part will be used more than once without modification. With Components, you can modify one instance and all the other instances will also be modified. The work-flow lends itself to drawing in-place because Grouped/Componentized geometry does not stick together, and you can start drawing the next part right where it belongs. Components also have the advantage of being able to be saved-out to disk, as well as re-loaded from disk and so replaced in a model.
Sometimes it works better to draw a part off to the side and then move it into place. Specifically, creating a "bend" in the tubing. But thinking in terms of bending isn't helpful at this point - think of it as extruding a profile. For this, you use the Follow Me Tool (see image.)
(Click for full-size.)Layers are used for visibility. Your use of a "construction" Layer is a good use of Layers. I don't tend to keep construction geometry around for very long once a part is drawn. I just find that once a part is draw, the construction geom becomes redundant. Most people recommend always drawing on Layer0, and putting only Groups/Components on on other Layers as needed to get them out of your way.
For the seat, maybe try to contact the manufacturer and see of they have cad drawings. If not, have a go at eye-balling it - that's as much as anyone else can do. The seat's rough dimensions are shown in an image from the JEGS site.
Use low-poly representations for the hardware - complex screws and nuts can bring SketchUp to a crawl. Do you really need to show the threads on them? All that really matters is their position in detail views, and the total number for the parts list.
Anyway, I hope that was all helpful and can get you going.
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Perhaps I should back up just a little bit, and paint a little more of the picture of why I'm here.
I have created a piece of hardware that will allow oneself to fly. This is not new, it has been done by many individuals before me, using various means to achieve flight.
What is novel about my approach is that I would like to start forming a community around my design. In my mind, the community would help with things like the modeling, parts substitution research, finite element analysis of the basic structure, testing etc. In return they would be, well, a productive part of the community.
I am basing this project loosely on what is being done in the embedded microcontroller community; http://www.arduino.cc/ whereby anyone has available to them what is needed to create an embedded programmable microcontroller. For example, they can download the mask and create their own circuit boards if they wished to do so. There exists commercial entities within that community (http://www.adafruit.com/) that sells pre-printed circuit boards and component kits. That is precisely the relationship I would like to have with this project. I would like to be the kit supplier.
It is very important to me for various reasons that the plans be available to anyone that wants to use them. I would like the 'wisdom of the crowd' to have an influence on the design as it morphs and matures. This really makes little sense if I end up doing the whole thing. I have already completed the design and construction of what I expect will be a flyable prototype.
I realize that anyone that wants to copy my design and build their own is going to do so with or without my consent. I would rather them have actual plans in the hope that if they make some incremental improvement, we can incorporate that into the on-going design.
I am capable of learning the SketchUp tool, but at this point I would really like to turn this portion over to someone else. I feel my time would be better spent writing use cases and doing actual testing of the prototype. That why I am seeking a recruit; so I won't have to learn everything from the ground up.
I've never never reached out for help like this before, its my nature to try to do everything myself. I really want to try to let someone else contribute. Since I've never really asked for help before, I am sure I'm probably not doing it right. I don't even have a good idea in my head HOW this person or persons will create the models. That is also an area where I am looking for advice. Where do we start? What should be the first piece of the craft that gets modeled? Should I take pictures, or just try to describe it? Will video work? Is this forum the best place to work from, or should we use another mechanism to collaborate?
I think whoever steps up to help stands to gain a lot of knowledge that they otherwise wouldn't, beyond that I cannot promise anything.
Mike
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