Google is Listening!

jeff hammond

vector push pull is very cool... but i think it would be a hard sell on packing all those options into a single ..

ok, so I'm confused then. Earlier you were saying that you want to pushpull a line. All you're going to get from that is a rectangle which is easily accomplished by the rectangle tool or drawing three more lines.
There are other cases where tig's tool does more than that but you're saying it's too complex to add to the base tool?
Basically, I think you're saying to allow pushpull to draw rectangles and while that might be neat, I don't think it's going to be implemented or even necessary.

bmike

@unknownuser said:

@bmike said:

vector push pull is very cool... but i think it would be a hard sell on packing all those options into a single ..

ok, so I'm confused then. Earlier you were saying that you want to pushpull a line. All you're going to get from that is a rectangle which is easily accomplished by the rectangle tool or drawing three more lines.
There are other cases where tig's tool does more than that but you're saying it's too complex to add to the base tool?
Basically, I think you're saying to allow pushpull to draw rectangles and while that might be neat, I don't think it's going to be implemented or even necessary.

no, i'm not trying to argue.
someone posted about push/pull / extruding a line.
i understood this as pulling on and end point, dragging the line out into space.
i see now that we are hung up on 'extruding' a line into a sheet of surface.

yes, if you were to 'extrude' a line you'd get a rectangle, and should just use that tool.
i'm not asking for this as a feature.
i understand how to get there, or to get a curved sheet by using vector push pull.
i was simply commenting on what i thought i read earlier.

personally i'd like the tools left alone, with incremental improvements and options for layering on features that make sense for an individual workflow.

and yes, thomthom - exactly. a plug in directory / management system, along with a strict UI and coding standards guide so clicks and icons and workflow all follow similar logic. naturally there will be outliers to any official 'system' - but having 'certified' plugins and a central repository (maybe divided into categories - much like smartphone app stores).

jeff hammond

I'm not trying to argue either. I just think certain requests aren't being thought through to the end user. It's not as simple as adding more features while maintaining intuitive tools.

Back to bonzai on that note. Upon a fresh install, you're greeted with three different select tools. You have to select a select tool prior to selecting. What's up with that?

bmike

@unknownuser said:

I just think certain requests aren't being thought through to the end user. It's not as simple as adding more features while maintaining intuitive tools.

+10000

Which is why i was so confused by the whole point of wanting to stack on functions to a pretty basic concept that is push pull.
Could it be smarter? Sure, as long as it remains intuitive to use.

Hieru

@thomthom said:

.....a Plugin Manager would let you browse and download plugins directly from SU. And of course update when updates are available. The Plugin Manager should be available as an one-click-installer.

Basically something like Dreamweaver's Extension Manager?

JClements

On the topic of Plugin Management, I would really like a standard method in the Ruby Code by which, at a minimum, the ruby file name is displayed with a mouseover****or in a description dialog when the menu item is right-clicked.

If I can figure out (when editing a ruby) where the menu name is defined I try and append it with the ruby name, version level, and the author. For example, Nudge [Nudge.rb v2.1 Smustard]. Although the menus get messy (wide) I find it particularly useful when recommending scripts or for scripts that I may not use often.

Other useful info would be a link to a download source and link to help and parameter info and even link to author's email.

thomthom

@hieru said:

Basically something like Dreamweaver's Extension Manager?

Maybe, I've never used it.
Like Firefox's plugin manager.
Like Debian/Ubuntu's package manager.

dacad

After reading the last posts i'm feeling like the bad guy in here...

Everyone's talking about what a great plataform for plugins Sketchup is, but a great plataform that can't display shadows properly, that don't have a something like a plugin manager, that has a API that doesn't seem to give enough acess to, for example, textures, or doesn't even support x64 or multicore technology, even if just to others benefict from? even after guys like Edwin Catmull saying that the future is in using parallel processing (and he's just the guy that was in the original team from Pixar(now president) and ILM and invented the catmull-clarck subdivision, but what does he know right?) or seeing others using this to enhance subdivision surface modeling? Sorry, but i still can't see this as a great platform...it's good, but not that good.

But this is useless, arguing now won't change nothing because more than enough users are happy with this way of "evolving", and in 2 years when SK9 is realeased it still won't have multicore/x64/use the current technology like opencl/better texture or modeling tools, but it will probably let us pushpull more than one face or doing something like subdivision 1 level (plus a lot more for google earth) and most will be more than happy with that, just like in 6, 7 and now 8.

I try to discussed this in a open and frank way with the "head of the SK team", with reviews and opinions and such, but he dodge all the "bullets", and gave us "pearls" like UV spherical beeing unnecessary or too complex or trying to sell COLLADA format as a more Standart format than obj (and i'm all in favor for collada but it's undeniable that obj it's widelly used), and still very few care, like everyone's afraid to say bad about the release. Before the end of this topic end, most probably the conclusion is that this was a great realease...

And for me SK it's like an hammer, i just used to do what an hammer is supost to do, the problem is that it's a wood hammer, like my grand parents had, that's heavy, making me more tire, that start's to hurt in time with all the wood splits, and sometimes the heavy metal head falls off making me trying to figure out ways to put it back. Now in the XXI century i just wanted a new hammer for doing the exact same things, but in aluminium to be lighter, with rubber to grab more comfortably, and with a smaller a more precise head. Instead i got my old hammer back, but with ductape and painted in other colour...I think right now this is the best analogy tha can be done between sketchup and a hammer.

I'm on old Sketchup user, but i think i'm no longer a user of the new Sketchup google wants, even if my goal is the same as ever and remember that SK was doing pretty well before google earth.

Hieru

@thomthom said:

Like Firefox's plugin manager.
Like Debian/Ubuntu's package manager.

I haven't used those before, but I think I know what you are getting at and think it's a great suggestion - especially if (as you say) you could get notifications when a new version of a plugin becomes available.

The only problem I can see is getting all developers to agree to work through a centralised plugin repository.

thomthom

@hieru said:

The only problem I can see is getting all developers to agree to work through a centralised plugin repository.

Don't think that would be the problem - problem is getting such a repository in the first place...

Hieru

......Yep that as well (probably more important come to think of it).

bmike

@unknownuser said:

And for me SK it's like an hammer, i just used to do what an hammer is supost to do, the problem is that it's a wood hammer, like my grand parents had, that's heavy, making me more tire, that start's to hurt in time with all the wood splits, and sometimes the heavy metal head falls off making me trying to figure out ways to put it back. Now in the XXI century i just wanted a new hammer for doing the exact same things, but in aluminium to be lighter, with rubber to grab more comfortably, and with a smaller a more precise head. Instead i got my old hammer back, but with ductape and painted in other colour...I think right now this is the best analogy tha can be done between sketchup and a hammer.

you don't use hammers much, do you?
aluminum hammer?
smaller, more precise head? maybe - for finish work. but if i'm framing, i'd want a heavier, well balanced head.

even within 'hammers' there are specific hammers for the job.
framing hammer, finish hammer, roofing hammer, etc. etc.

but a hammer with an aluminum handle - no thanks. my elbows and hands hurt just thinking about it.

i'll take (and use) one of these:

and a host of others with wood handles.
no duct tape required.
hammer is a simple tool designed to do simple tasks.
but with the right simple tools, folks can build amazing things.

dacad

bmike
i was trying to make a point...you know...an analogy between and old hammer and a new one related to sketchup? you get that right?

basicly trying to compare a (really) old hammer with a new one like the ones in the picture. You still use old ones like that in the picture too ?

but sorry about my mistake in the hammer analogy

old hammer that head falloff

new hammer

JClements

I didn't think it was the hammer, but what you are lucky enough to hit with it(.

bmike

@unknownuser said:

bmike
i was trying to make a point...you know...an analogy between and old hammer and a new one related to sketchup? you get that right?

basicly trying to compare a (really) old hammer with a new one like the ones in the picture. You still use old ones like that in the picture too ?

but sorry about my mistake in the hammer analogy

no, i get it.
i still use tools that were designed 100+ years ago and have changed very little (hand plane, hammer, saw, etc.)
i may use modern versions, or classic tools, depending on what feels right and what fits the task.

i don't see much of the criticism leveled at sketchup here as fair.
use the tool where it works, but don't be upset at your hammer because it makes a poor screw driver.
and if you find yourself driving screws, and the screwdriver plugin for your hammer just isn't cutting it, it might be time to invest in a new addition to the tool box. my hammer doesn't seem to mind when i pick up the pliers or the saw to get the job done.

that said, there is certainly room for continued refinement and improvement.
the question is - what does google (who makes the tool) view as important...?
and if the sketchUcation 'community' feels otherwise - how to lobby effectively for change?
and, if the hammer doesn't grow a sliding screw driver tip and a folding saw with the next release - what is the plan for moving on?

solo

If we all got what we wanted, Sketchup would be this:

not very practical.

emage

I feel the need to jump in and say that I completely understand DaCad.
SU is great, but it seem to be frozen in time (early 2000's).

This thread got me thinking, and I DO agree to the idea of SU as a Platform.
I think IT IS the right way to go - every will tailor SU to his liking.

That said, I think that as a Platform SU falls short.
it has no 64Bit (and that IS AN ISSUE if it is a platform. saying "get a studio render engine" is the exact opposite that a one-stop platform!), and Poly-count wise, it pretty much suck.

I don't think that Google need to develop any more tools. I would Happily pay for good plugins by the great developers around here.
But I sure ain't going to pay 100's of dollars for a such a release.
Come'on! a Toolbar bugfix as a major feature?!

Now, don't take that as a rant.
I really appreciate the fact the John spends his time reading and answering us.
(though i feel some important issues are being dodged.)
I'd really like to see SU get Better. it could be a Super-Tool.
not just for the free swarm of Google-Earth builder. it could be Super Pro.

Marian

How about like this?

No matter where or when this hammer strikes it will still be as solid as the day it was made...plus a few dents and scratches of course

jbacus

@emage said:

Now, don't take that as a rant.
I really appreciate the fact the John spends his time reading and answering us.
(though i feel some important issues are being dodged.)

What issue do you feel I dodged?

john
.