Is the Gallery section starting to resemble 3DWH?
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As a total noob here I'd just like to add that for someone who doesn't know their way around there is so much to sort through.
Personally I think it would be helpful if the gallery had subsections.
It seems to me that a gallery is a place to display finished work, be it good or bad.
Perhaps a subsection simply called the drawing office or drawing board or the workshop, something that gives it an obvious use, where all the WIPs can be viewed with a link to the final Image, or images, that have eventually been placed in the gallery with a link back.This way you can look through the finished work and easily find the relevant WIP or happily follow the WIPs themselves.
I also agree with others that have said it's better to post a separate thread when you want an answer to a question. I have a lot of experience with forums, as a user and moderator, and threads with a specific question in their header get a much higher answer rate than questions buried in other threads. It also makes searching for answers more effective.
And I'm have been happily amazed by the helpfulness of all the people here.
Thank you all. -
@solo said:
I say leave things the way they are, It just takes a click to get out of a thread with works one may feel trivial, and then you can ignore it from there onwards.
Maybe folks could use 'WIP' in the title also.
I agree with Pete and others that think we should keep it as is. Adding "WIP" to the subject line, or ""no post work", "Podium render" etc. would be enough. Easy enough to click through and pick out you personal interest.
Some years ago the moderators simplified the forum and I think it has been and will be for the best.
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Is the poll's result no longer valid?
After a long and sensible debate it seems not many members were particulary interested in the split? Even though those that voted favoured the split.
The long serving contributors seem to favour an 'as is' approach, just better tagging of posts.
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I agree with rclub (whether that matters or not though. . .)
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@unknownuser said:
Is the poll's result no longer valid?
After a long and sensible debate it seems not many members were particulary interested in the split? Even though those that voted favoured the split.
The long serving contributors seem to favour an 'as is' approach, just better tagging of posts.
I don't know if you realise Sketchucation is a commercial enterprise. As far as I know Mike Lucey, Gaieus, Coen and TBD are the owners. Their revenue seems to come from Google ads. They don't seem to consider whether it could be some kind of PR consultancy for those who use Sketchup and contribute expertise in one form or another.
But if at the base it is really a kind of Women's Institute then "as is" seems dull but peaceful. It just seems a bit of an insult to the efforts of those who brought us high speed, multi-connected multimedia personal computing not to even discuss, for example, Matteo's suggestion. Don't you think?
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Well, one thing is that SketchUcation is a commercial enterprise and another is that the forums have only been "commercialised" with what you can see as ads here. We are using a pre-made forum software that allows some things and allows others via so called "MOD's" (read "modifications" that we would call "plugins" in SU).
Trying to find the best possible solution for everyone involved in such a case is not easy. Ye, I could modify the size of (generated) thumbnails to quite an extreme but would that be handy? I am not sure.
Please, keep the ideas coming...
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@unknownuser said:
@chrisglasier said:
I don't know if you realise Sketchucation is a commercial enterprise.
Hi Chris,
I'm completely aware of the value of the SketchUcation brand but, as Gaieus has mentioned, the forums i feel remain relatively free from providing a commercial service to it's consumers[members]. But that is whole other debate from Dean's original issue.@unknownuser said:
@chrisglasier said:
But if at the base it is really a kind of Women's Institute then "as is" seems dull but peaceful.
At the base of all established communities is etiquette. Which i think is what has kicked off this debate! And as it has ran i've followed closely as it highlights a flaw. For me, as new members register, whether young or old, it's up to those who care to lead by example. Leaving 'as is' suggestion that has developed throughout the thread shows me that fundamentally the system works. But if creating a peaceful but dull community we fail to correct the flaw then members like Dean, Stinkie, Matteo and yourself(+ many more) will continue to feel frustrated by numerous unfinished and jumbled WIP's. I voted yes to splitting the Gallery but also posted asking is the 'poll still valid?' The reason for this was i noticed a theme begin to develope in the debate. One which you also hit upon. Have we explored all options before coming up with a viable solution? Dean also showed concern with regard limiting participation and segregating user levels.
So, this leads us back to what is wrong?
Here, is typically what new members are faced with on arrival at SCF. The Newbie Forum clearly states it's intention but every other Forum allows members to interpret what they consider they should post there. This casual (or dull
) approach has led to the perceived abuse of the Gallery Forum. The unwritten etiquette of what a WIP should entail has been misinterpreted. And because this has been let linger it has grown, leaving long serving contributors dismayed and new members unaware of this 'unwritten etiquette'.How do we fix it?
@unknownuser said:
@chrisglasier said:
It just seems a bit of an insult not to even discuss, for example, Matteo's suggestion.
You've hit the nail on the head here, as has Matteo. Looking elsewhere for creative approaches will provide possible solutions. Adapting these approaches here will provide the framework which we can build upon. As Gaieus, just mentioned it's by making these suggestions and offering opinions that'll help iron out the wrinkles!
I hope this clears up my previous post, which unintentionally lacked detail. And yes i'm incredibly dull, that's why i come here
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%(#000080)[by matteo on 24 Jun 2010, 12:40
what about a visual index? something like a thumbnail gallery.]
though matteo plans is very suggestive, i think that it would be more the spirit of sketchup (in the layout of the page of SketchUcation) to add a Wips folder besides the Gallery folder and with the same treatment. I mean two folders.what do you think ? rclub24?
sorry Wips for my bad calligraphy
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Would it be possible to have a gallery that was full of thumbnails and pictures that could be viewed by category, author, status, most popular, most commented, expertise (perhaps computed from members scores)?
Could this be independent of the standard forum application other than its launch - I think the Daily Catchup is like that? If so comments could then be attached and opened from the image itself and/or some other link.
For me the main thing is that it would be a proper web gallery. The element of contributor/viewer choice is considerably widened. And for me I do not get notification of a new post in a topic I am interested in that when opened simply says AWESOME.
Sorry Rich if you thought I was suggesting you were dull - not so.
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This is indeed a good idea, Chris, although I doubt we could "tune" the forum software itself to do this but we could add "articles" to the Daily CatchUp (and/or similar things in case we would revive our monthly newsletter or similar).
It all depends on manpower at the moment however. The Daily CatchUp should have much more and much more versatile content anyway but that's unfortunately not an automated system but manual article writing (which would also involve subjective decision what to write about for instance).
We are seriously considering a brand new website (main page and similar) that could (possibly? maybe?) pull info from various parts of the forum and we could continuously showcase valuable contributions throughout the various sections of the forums (or am I just dreaming? Well, that's my goal at the moment anyway).
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That's good to know there are moves afoot to exploit let us say more adventurous use of software. It seems to me that the functionality of gallery pages can be limited to navigation (multi-entry point browsing), uploading, resizing, commenting, and possibly rating. I don't know about uploading but the rest seems to be within the skills in the community. I am sure it has to be open (and therefore automatic) otherwise the same old moans will persist (should be like TV where the viewer can always change channel).
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Certainly a good debate, and although I originally voted yes to a split up in the poll, I am not so sure after paying attention to this thread.
It has caused me to think about the way I use the forum, and like others have mentioned, if I open a new topic post, and it loses me in the first few postings, I probably won't be back.
I do try to have a look at the Gallery posts though because there are some gems that I would hate to overlook. But I think a person develops their own set of "Filters"even if subconsciously. So in the end I'm wondering if a split will really, to me make all that much difference in the way I approach the forum.
I use SketchUp mostly at work to help clients visualize projects. Since the modeling and visualization, in our workflow, happens at the beginning of the process, the work from my point of view would always be a WIP, because usually the project changes, some times quite significantly as it goes through design development and working drawings. The model however, sometimes never gets to evolve in that way, mostly due to time and financial constraints. That would mean for me that in my WIP thread there may not be other versions to post as I'm moving on to the next project. This also makes me feel a little awkward when I receive good and valid criticism that really should be acted on, and because of the above mentioned constraints, don't, then it looks like you are thanking everyone, but totally ignoring their valid suggestions. ( Which implies that their just a bunch of wankers )
I am involved in a lot of other forums, as I'm sure lots of you are, but I don't think any of them offer the timely, quality help that this one does. And although courtesy sometimes gets set aside, not very often.
All in all I guess in reconsideration, I'm pretty happy with the way things are. -
@dale said:
Since the modeling and visualization, in our workflow, happens at the beginning of the process, the work from my point of view would always be a WIP, because usually the project changes, some times quite significantly as it goes through design development and working drawings. The model however, sometimes never gets to evolve in that way, mostly due to time and financial constraints. That would mean for me that in my WIP thread there may not be other versions to post as I'm moving on to the next project. This also makes me feel a little awkward when I receive good and valid criticism that really should be acted on, and because of the above mentioned constraints, don't,
Dale, I think your situation is not uncommon. Some rendering artists here may take a perfectly fine work and develop it throughout a project, e.g. those doing very high-profile buildings or film work. But if you do a piece for your own enjoyment or you actually show it to a client, it's finished in that sense. When you get critique you can use it to develop your technique, not necessarily for that project. Not only do great ideas from the forum end up in the round file, but as you well know, so will some of your best work, due to those constraints. I think there's a big difference in that "WIP" you use in presentation and, say, the first layout of a massing study, or rendering experiments with 3DWH downloads. (Not to denigrate any of these.)
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Some of y'all may remember me from way back before the Goog pulled the plug on the original forum after the acquisition. I've stayed away because my newfound freelance life (laid off in July '08) didn't afford me many SU opportunities, but I'm finally starting to sell those kinds of projects. Anyhow, I'm kind of amused to see that the pro vs. newbie thing is still a hot-button issue.
Speaking as someone who's been away for a while, I would lean towards the notion of leaving things fundamentally the same but maybe featuring some rockstar examples somehow. Here's why: I do landscape and architectural design, so tend to prefer the type of thing that marked001 or Tom do. Houses, site plans, I'm on it. WIP threads for a sniper rifle model? Don't care. BUT, occasionally I'll notice that the page count is creeping up on a thread I bypassed, and I check it out and I'm blown away by work outside of what usually interests me. If there was a separate gallery- be it for WIPs, n00bs, or non-architectural models- I'd probably only ever go there if I was on hold with a vendor for an hour or trying really really hard to procrastinate. That would be my loss.
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After reading through some of the posts on this thread I feel that breaking the Gallery section into a Gallery and WIP threads isn't as good an idea as having a separate Gallery section that doesn't have posts.
I'm trying to convince one of my clients to lean more towards SketchUp and Vray rather than going the AutoCAD Architecture route and I'd like to be able to point her to a Gallery of images to make my point. I can send her to the existing Gallery but she doesn't want to read through all sorts of comments, she just wants to see what the software can do for her.
Furthermore, with a separate Gallery, some of the spectacular accomplishments by Solo and others would be around for a much longer period than they are now.
I can do that with modo. There is a Gallery of images that are chosen by the moderators. It's very easy to flip through them to get a sense of what can be accomplished with the software.
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@arail1 said:
... she just wants to see what the software can do for her.
A very good point, one that can be extended to anyone who is unaware of what can be achieved or supported with Sketchup - art, design, manufacture, construction, shopping, educating and on and on.
Rather than masterpieces selected by moderators the gallery could be a place for real member/guest interaction using demographic controls and options.
It is quite disconcerting that some members take a "doesn't affect me" attitude - very shortsighted in my opinion.
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@unknownuser said:
I'm trying to convince one of my clients to lean more towards SketchUp and Vray
What this has to do with SCF?
Solo is not even working with vray.
This is not a SU+vray forum, am I right?
Lot of people do other experiments using lot of apps, workflows etc. Your client will be confused reading all these.
You can't ask for this, its not about personal needs here. Lot of apps like Twilight, podium, shaderlight etc are SU oriented and have some nice galleries on their sites.
Solution: just google, lets say SU+vray+galleries. Or just search SCF, you may convince your client that vray is the best renderer for SU. Possibly.
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@michaliszissiou said:
@unknownuser said:
I'm trying to convince one of my clients to lean more towards SketchUp and Vray
I think what was meant here was more an alternative to Autodesk etc. or perhaps orthogonal drawings in general. This is an extremely important subject if we are ever to reduce the massive and unnecessary amount of paper oriented communication in the building industry and elsewhere. Sketchup models, rendered or not, seem to me to be a good basis for a new modus operandi.
Don't you think?
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I'm not sure how much work would be involved but I think it would be a good idea to include a small thumbnail preview for the finished work gallery posts. It seems like most forums nowadays are going that route anyway.
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Yeah I suppose there is a lot of stuff that isnt too great but people have to learn somewhere. I agree about constructive criticisms and that some people take much offense. I think its great I post on other forums just to get those type of responses. But its true a lot of people seem to post images of barely put together projects. I know im guilty of posting a lot but like somebody mentioned earlier the gallery should be too showcase work that the user wants to show off and is proud of.
I wouldn't say its anywhere as bad as the 3D warehouse! that place is a mess but its not all bad at least its getting young people interested in 3D! But the whole car modding thing is a joke!!!! grrr
I think its simple really, split the gallery to a work in progress section and then a finished images gallery. And if its possible have a small thumbnail section to show tiny images before you click on the post. But I dont know how difficult that would be, I hope its sorted out however!Hope you can split the gallery good luck with whatever you choose.
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