Is the Gallery section starting to resemble 3DWH?
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Competed works only in main section, WIPs elsewhere.
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I find the distinction between 'finished' and 'in-progress' to be nuanced, subjective, and irrelevant to the work itself, which is what I assume the gallery is about, not to mention that it would be a self-applied criteria; some folks never think anything is 'done' since they are ever trying to improve it or are simply of the unsatisfied sort. WIP threads might be encouraged to be so titled if the voting finds wading through same too burdensome.
'Criticism' is in this context I think maybe not the most appropriate for what might be better termed help or opinion. It just sounds a little negative, though I know it need not be construed that way..., and I do appreciate the OP's sentiments.
As far as the subject matter goes, trash or subjects which do not appeal to any one of us, whether wheel rims or textureless architectural models, can just as easily make their way to the WIP or Finished Gallery/s, so that in and of itself will offer no relief...
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Personally i disagree that the distinction between finished and in-progress has to be nuanced and subjective. I think a thread that starts of detailing the very beginnings of a project, where the author knows theres is still a lot of work to be done, can easily be labelled a work in progress compared to a piece of work that has been taken as far as the author wants.
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I voted yes but I also think most forums that have separate WIP and Gallery threads have two sections that are nearly identical. The modo WIP and Gallery are pretty much the same.
This is kind of inevitable. If someone posts something in the Gallery and you think the lighting isn't so great do you not say so? If you do make a comment, then that thread becomes identical to a WIP thread.
Further, someone who is showing work that you think is a 'box with a photograph stuck on the side' might consider it done and show it in the Gallery section. Separating the two sections does nothing to shunt works of a lower quality to one area and works of a higher quality to another.
One way around this is to have a Gallery section that is chosen by the moderators. modo has a WIP and a Gallery in their forums but there's a separate Gallery that is not a part of the forums. Inclusion in that section is determined by Luxology. And it's not a forum, there's no posts just the images.
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I say leave things the way they are, It just takes a click to get out of a thread with works one may feel trivial, and then you can ignore it from there onwards.
Maybe folks could use 'WIP' in the title also.
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Well, that could work, but then you would have to link to another thread to show the finished work
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@unknownuser said:
Well, that could work, but then you would have to link to another thread to show the finished work
or you could asked for the thread to be moved.
just suggestions.
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Yeah, but then you would have to move the thread every time you post a finished/ new project...:/
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But imagine how organized it will be...
(masterpieces before the sketch...) -
Hi Guys,
I think there may be a way of sorting this out to keep everyone happy. How about we change the name of the Gallery to Gallery Showcase or Showcase Gallery and only allow high quality content including Works In Progress by experts. I have a feeling that some experts are not be too inclined to mix their work with Newbies. This is a fact and common throughout all walks of life.
I have just now looked at two WIP topics, Joarek's and jo-ke's.
Joarek's can be found here, http://forums.sketchucation.com/viewtopic.php?f=79&t=29073 in the Newbie Forum. He moved his work from the Gallery to the Newbie Forum. BTW, I have asked him to reduce his image sizes to something around 1000 x ???. At 2560 x 1600 they are far be big. He would appear to be a Newbie and obviously is willing to learn and in turn should be helped. We might consider having a Newbie Gallery as this would solve the question for Newbies looking for a place to post their work.
jo-ke's can be found here, http://forums.sketchucation.com/viewtopic.php?f=81&t=28838 in the Gallery. His work is obviously that of an expert. Also he knows what size images to post
Ahh! I hear the question, 'How does a person decide on their expertise?' They use their noggin! Simple and straight forward. If we see an obvious Newbie posting in the Gallery he / she is asked by a Mod to move the image / WIP or whatever to the Newbie Forum. Any of the Moderators call make this call. If the Newbie refuses, the move is made by a Mod. If feelings are hurt, so be it.
When a Newbie considers he has reached a level of expertise that should allow him to post in the Gallery Showcase, he asks a Mod for his assessment and if appropriate he is allowed to post in the Gallery Showcase.
Any thoughts on this proposal?
Mike
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Mike and All,
I regret somewhat touching off the debate, but it has been interesting to see the differing perspectives.
This is and has always been such a great community - I don't want to see any changes that might limit any participation, or make them feel as if they don't belong. But - I like a couple of the ideas mentioned here, and maybe there is a compromise that would not offend any posters here - but improve the experience. I absoultely think that 95% of the WIP threads here have a value, and in general don't think they need to be relocated. But some guidelines might be in order, after which the moderators would have some basis for dealing with those that stray. WIP's should be clearly identified as such, and should only contain 1 collective work. What I mean by this is to eliminate the individual artist WIP's where they have multiple models added over the course of years and are 57 pages long. Add maybe a button or some type of indicator for posts where the author is asking for and receptive to constructive "critic" of their posted work. Lastly - I like the idea of a seperate "locked" moderated showcase gallery where the mods add a collection of the best work from different fields for all of us to admire.Thanks,
Dean -
True
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It is not really just because of your post now, Dean. This has emerged many times already and as our Gallery section is already the most frequented forum, it will probably not suffer too much from some rationalisation. Before, when the community was smaller, it didn't seem to be reasonable to do this - maybe the time has come.
I would not call it newbie vs. experienced artists or finished stuff vs. WIP's or architecture vs. car modelling or even textured box vs. detailed modelling (both has its place)... What I personally have in mind is to distinguish between a showcase gallery (no matter if the person showcasing makes changes according to the crits - after all that's one reason for posting) and one where models are continuously being developed from almost the beginning (i.e. it is not really gallery stuff in the classic meaning). Also, some people tend to keep all his stuff together no matter if they thematically belong together or not (like see Nacho's 10 page topic with excellent stuff) while others start a new post for each project. I am not sure we should force either solution...
But then again, these are just my thoughts and we have a whole week to think things over.
I also hope no-one will feel bad and I am sure that we can arrange this for the favour of all.
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I think back to the old forum, when everybody was 'pro'. ie: they had paid for it.
After that particular forums' demise, (which I, for one, considered murder most foul),
we, (most of us),rushed here.
To hopefully re-establish the spirit we had enjoyed before.
We/it did, it happened!
Then we had the shock of the free su followed by the dread of the newbie multitudes, come to overrun us.
That happened too, and i have been very impressed by the willingness, patience and good fellowship of you skuppers who engage those with such good humour. (i'm a better person mysel for it).
so, to my point: imho, I believe that we do need some deliniation between those who are serious about su and related things, and those who are...how to say?.... wankers...just ideals. (thanks JM)
rgds,baz
notes:
google shouldnt promote this forum so enthusically, smacks of irresponsibility to me.
pushbullbars' modus operandi has merit, tho it's not for me. 'respec'.
twilight has a 'serious place'
read thread when have time. ") -
What's wrong with the way it is? All I'm hearing at the moment is a load of people who don't like newbies, and so want to get them out of the gallery???
@bytor said:
it is becoming increasingly difficult to find as much "value" for my time while looking through the gallery section.
@unknownuser said:
There is not an ounce of skill in those types of models. I also have stopped commenting on many of the works I have seen here. When I was commenting I was trying to give advice which falls of young deaf ears
@mike lucey said:
How about we change the name of the Gallery to Gallery Showcase or Showcase Gallery and only allow high quality content including Works In Progress by experts.
@mike lucey said:
I have a feeling that some experts are not be too inclined to mix their work with Newbies
@mike lucey said:
If feelings are hurt, so be it
@baz said:
the dread of the newbie multitudes, come to overrun us.
@baz said:
I believe that we do need some deliniation between those who are serious about su and related things, and those who are...how to say?.... wankers...
It seems nobody is seeing this from the "newbie's" perspective. We come on this forum and see a gallery, full of very high quality models and renders. Granted most of them are either buildings or cars, but said newbie decides that he shall post his work to get a response. Now I realise that some people have their head up their arse and get pissed off if they get anything other than pure praise. However, some of these newbies actually come onto this forum to get a proper response from the 'pros'. It seems however that the so called 'wanker' has made the majority of these 'pros' stay away from the newbie threads because they can't be arsed to help anymore? So I ask this: if you're not willing to teach the newbie, then how will newbie learn? Break up the Gallery if you like, but it won't do any good for the less experienced community.
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@hobbnob said:
Break up the Gallery if you like, but it won't do any good for the less experienced community.
Why not ? the less experienced community will learn that to get to the Showcase Gallery requires an special effort.
I mean, for instance, when you enter a Museum you go there to watch, there is not a constant introduction of new paintings all day in the Museum. Paintings on there are quietly shown.
I think that what we are trying to do is to get the Gallery calmed enough to enjoy it and learn quietly.salud
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If the gallery is split between newbies and pro's then the pro's won't help the newbies, plain and simple. pro's will be happy that they are free of said newbie and won't go to the newbie thread to help out, meaning that the situation won't change a single bit.
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so you have not been helped ?
or are you afraid not to be helped anymore ? -
Both tbh, I've been using su for about 4 years now but have only recently started using sucation as a way of reaching out for advice. However, the people from whom I am wanting criticism the most consider themselves too 'expert' to post on a 'wankers' wip thread. Splitting the forum will not make this problem any better, and SuCation will move further away from the less experienced community, leaving a lot of people behind.
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you think creating the Showcase Gallery will leave a lot of people behind ?
On the contrary, make sure that if we get a quiet Gallery where the best is shown, the people that you ask advise from will gladly get to your thread and help you. This has always been a helping hand community. And I think you have to admit that there are levels of knowing and it is always better to take care for the good stuff that we already have and get it safely alone, than to let it die in a mess of trying efforts rehearsal .well, it is my opinion, anyway.
salud
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