Mac v Win
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Jackson,
Looks like you did most of my work for me. There are just two further items that must be factored in to get a true picture.
As we all know, laptop manufactures like to bring out a new model every 18 months or so. I understand one reason for this is because CPUs used to double in speed at these intervals, not so sure now!
My question is what will the Secondhand Value of each of the above mentioned laptops be after 18 months of use? I feel VERY confident that the Mac will STILL have a good secondhand value whereas the HP will be difficult to stift.
This should be factored into the initial purchase decision, just like when buying a new car! Also there is a GREEN element to the purchase, Macs have far longer life spans than PCs due in part to the superior build quality.
I think when these items are factored in the Mac wins hands down
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..... I had a look around for some hard cold facts on the reliability issue and found this, http://www.businesswire.com/portal/site/home/index.jsp?epi-content=GENERIC&newsId=20071023005996&ndmHsc=v2A1193137200000B1193173343000DgroupByDateJ1L1N1000837*ZApple&newsLang=en&beanID=202776713&viewID=news_view
%(#000080)['The Report calculated the "Reliability Score" for each PC vendor based on the calculated difference between overall U.S. market share, over a three-year period, and the percentage of calls requesting service received by RESCUECOM’s call center. Higher scores indicate that less calls for service were received for the specific computer vendor versus expected levels based upon market share estimates (scores are in parentheses)
Apple (357)
Lenovo/IBM (236)
HP (126)
Gateway (103)
Dell (94)
Others (79)]Jackson, I think you would need to consider buying 3 HP Laptops or 4 Dells just to be safe on the reliability issue
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wouldn't most mac users call 1-800-APL-CARE instead of 1-800-RESCUE-PC ?
dude, seriously, macs and pcs use the same hardware.. same hard drives, dvd burners, chips, motherboards, etc......
look inside your mac and you'll see intel, western digital, seagate, sony, panasonic, etc... nothing apple though some things will be 'designed' by apple (such as that tiny extra chip that's on your cpu that says 'i'm a mac' and prevents another OS from being installed)..
circumventing that chip (which is illegal due to copy write issues) will allow windows to run totally fine on a mac.. some things will actually perform better on the mac and vice versa..
mac vs win is only a battle of operating systems/software now... that's it.. (well, and the outer shell of said gadget)
apple isn't even pursuing anyone violating the copy write because they like the 'buzz' surrounding their OS.. the main reason microsoft has 90% share is due to familiarity.. so-and-so goes into best buy to get a new computer and they won't get a mac simply because they don't want to learn a new system..
as far as superior reliability with apple, i personally doubt the claims (though i don't have any ms purchases to compare).. it took me 3 iphones until i finally got one that worked properly and i had a motherboard replaced on a laptop.. this only in the past year..
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@unknownuser said:
My question is what will the Secondhand Value of each of the above mentioned laptops be after 18 months of use? I feel VERY confident that the Mac will STILL have a good secondhand value whereas the HP will be difficult to stift.
when is the last time you or anyone you know bought an 18 month or computer?
its preposterous, in the computer business there's likely two newer (faster) generations of processors and memory in that time frame? -
I have had PC's and Macs for 22 years by now. At present my Mac is quite old, running OS8 and not capable of running anything newer. Of the 8 Macs I have owned, three had faulty motherboards that were replaced by warranty, so my personal experience cannot rate Mac reliability very high. My own PCs have behaved better, with the graphics card in my laptop breaking down after some years of heavy use (I was able to replace it), but at work, where we're 16, I think we lose a harddrive about yearly.
Anssi
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Jeff (Dude
)I'm passing along the report. It speaks for itself. From a personal point of view my Service Calls have dropped to zero over the past 3 years of Mac use. Prior to this period it needed three to four call outs a year costing at €600 +.
Let me ask a question! Which (Independent) Computer Maintenance business would a (Dual System) Service Engineer choose, Mac or PC? I imagine if he wanted to make enough to eat he would opt for a PC Maintenance Shop.
I agree the hardware is now similar in both PCs and Macs. However Macs are put together to a higher standard with better drivers especially for video. I don't understand what you are saying about Macs being OSX only. Windows runs on Macs via BootCamp, often faster than on PCs.
IMO the reason MicroSoft have 90% of the market is because IBM 'opened the doors' back in the 80s and MS was their contracted OS. Apple remained a 'closed door' system and still is. IMB Clones (PCs) became a 'free for all' market and grew rapidly. AuotCAD and Word also played a big part in the growth. Apple cornered the Graphic Design market.
It is my experience that most first time buyers will always opt for a Mac over a PC after trying out both machines / operating systems. Of course price is also a factor but if they can stretch to it they normally do. Once they opt for a Mac they rarely change to PC. The same cannot be said for PC purchasers.
As regards the iPhone, it is well documented that the first batch had quite a few faulty units. I never buy market entry units of anything. Its always best to wait for a few months, then go for one. This applies to lots of products including software.
xrok 1,
I have been buying Macs for my daughter for the past 7 years and for myself since Mac started using the Intel chip.
In total I have bought three laptops for my daughter and two for myself. I always deal with a local company http://www.compub.com/. They always take our old laptops as trade-ins and offer good prices. Check out their current used machines and note that there are no MacBook Pros for sale. They a snapped up as soon as they are traded in. There are a few Airs for sale but I feel this particular laptop was not a good Apple idea as it had no CD Rom. This particular company deals with a lot of Graphic Design students (all Graphic Design Colleges over here use Macs) and they have a good secondhand market.
You can also check out eBay and see for yourself what Macs are available and their ages. Its is quite common to see 3 -4 year old laptops and desktops on sale AND being sold!
I will admit that power users, like many here, have the need for the fastest available CPU and an 18 month old machine would not suit them BUT a good quality used MAC will suit many normal users and there are far more of those guys than power users!
Mike
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Touche !
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@mike lucey said:
Let me ask a question! Which (Independent) Computer Maintenance business would a (Dual System) Service Engineer choose, Mac or PC? I imagine if he wanted to make enough to eat he would opt for a PC Maintenance Shop.
9x out of 10, he'll go pc...
@unknownuser said:
. I don't understand what you are saying about Macs being OSX only. Windows runs on Macs via BootCamp, often faster than on PCs.
yeah, i jumbled that part all up.. meant - you can't install os x on a computer that doesn't have the 'i'm a mac' chip... if apple took that part out of the OS, you could.. they want you to buy macs if you want to use their software.. that leads back to what xrok said earlier about lots of ways to run windows on macs but zero ways (legal) to do the opposite..
apple allows the crossover programs in order to lure in more hardware buyers but they won't allow their software to run on machines sold by another company.. -
I understand what you are saying now Jeff and agree the Apple is a 'closed shop'. I honestly think this is a good policy as they can maintain their standards with this policy. As I said above, they went the clone route some years ago but Steve Jobs put an end to it when he took the helm over. BTW I hope he gets over his health problems as he will be a difficult act to follow. He did put a 'face' / personality on Apple and this again is something that I like about the company.
I also put the Maintenance case badly. How about this choice? If you where Computer Maintenance guy and your choice is to earn a living maintaining 1000 PCs or 1000 Macs on call-outs only (and no sabotage allowed
) ! Which one would you go for?Mike
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@unknownuser said:
apple allows the crossover programs in order to lure in more hardware buyers but they won't allow their software to run on machines sold by another company..
Mike do you care to tell how this practice is in their customers best interest?
Allow me; if people could run mac's OS on pc's they would never sell another mac, because after all it is really mac's OS that makes there computers worth having not their hardware. if apple where smart they would get out of the computer business and into the OS business where they belong. OH, wait a minute, then they would have to deal with hundreds of manufactures hardware configs which would cause their OS to CRASH! Never mind, better leave that to Microsoft, they know what their doing.
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eeeerrrrrr ...... yes!
I wonder what the case would be if IBM did not 'open the doors'! -
If........
we may still be running 8086 processors, who knows. the fact that they did open there doors did in fact benefit apple as much as anyone, it opened the "race" for the biggest, fastest, best...
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I have a Mac (powerbook), which I use most of the time and I generally prefer it to using my windows box. Unlike most people, I got the Mac for the things you can't see; I like that it has Bash by default, that there is a lot of uni stuff I can put on it easily and just the general *nixiness of the internals. It is good as a laptop, too, light, thin, decent battery etc. Most things do just work and I don't know what I would do now without Hot Corners.
There is the odd thing I have come across in the Mac version of SU that I prefer (exporting pictures, for example, as rarely as I do that from the menu), but there are also a lot of annoying things which are different from the Windows version, for no good reason.
Of course, if I could choose any OS and have SU work on it, it would be Linux. I don't think I am a fanboy of anything, but windows really annoys me when I have to use it for any length of time. Linux usually does what I want and, ironically, is now easier to use most of the time, too. It really has come on leaps and bounds in the last few years and some of the window managers now rival OS X for prettiness. If a few key applications would properly support it, I wouldn't look back.
Oh, and for anyone who has ever had trouble installing Microsoft software, using Windows Update, or anything else like that: you may be amused to know that you are not alone.
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@mike lucey said:
Guys,
I recently did a quick comparison between a 17" Dell Precision M6400 and the New 17" MacBook Pro cost wise. The following is how it panned out.
Dell Precision M6400 Covet Mobile Workstation
2.4 Intel Core 2 Duo
4GB,1066MHz DDR3 SDRAM
1920x1200 17in Back-Lit Display
200GB SATA Hard Drive
8X DVD+/-RW Drive Slot Load with Optical Media Included
512MB NVIDIA Quadro FX2700M€ 2,499
MacBook Pro 17"
2.66 Intel Core 2 Duo
4GB 1066MHz DDR3 SDRAM - 2x2GB
1920 x 1200 Glossy Widescreen Display
320GB Drive
SuperDrive 8x (DVD±R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW)
NVIDIA GeForce 9400M + 9600M GT with 512MB
Built-in 8-hour battery
AppleCare Protection Plan for MacBook Pro (w/or w/o Display)€2,344
I also advise that more than likely the Dell would be worth €500ish after 2 years (id possible to sell) whereas the Mac could be worth in the region of €1,000 and probably a lot easier to sell to graphic / design students.
I think the demonstrates that Macs are not expensive when compared fairly.
Mike
Well as far as I know Quadro FX 2700M is WAY more expensive then a 9600M GT. Not really a fair comparison really.
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Compare the entry desktops...
20" iMac: $1,199.00
2.4GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
1GB memory
250GB hard drive
8x double-layer SuperDrive
ATI Radeon HD 2400 XT with
128MB memoryDell Inspiron 518: $819
2.33Ghz Core 2 Quad
Dell SP2009W 20" Widescreen Flat Panel Monitor with Webcam
4GB memory
640GB hard drive
16X DVD+/-RW Drive
ATI Radeon HD 3450 256MB supporting HDMI
Dell 19 in 1 Media Card Reader
Internal PCI 802.11g Wireless Network CardApple really needs to sell a consumer tower but I guess Steve won't let them.
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This is fun.
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If I had a choice of laptops I'd probably get a Mac, all other things being equal, because they are fairly sexy. The trouble is, all things are not equal. They are expensive, no more reliable than an IBM system and don't run half the software I need. Laptops are different...you physically handle them a lot. They are right in your face; if not on your lap.
As for a desktop...I couldn't care less what it looks like as long as it does it's job. I'll bet that most people don't even notice their tower boxes; they are under the desk most of the time, anyway. All I really notice is the monitor (My HP looks much like the Mac in the picture above) or more specifically, the monitor screen.
You've got to be pretty sad to be drooling over a piece of hardware...and even sadder to pay good money for it for little extra reason other than it looks prettyMacs do have a nice GUI, but nothing that you can't generally replicate with some 3rd party Window apps...and for a lot less cost than the price differential of the basic systems.
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Hi,
I was a Mac fanboy until Windows 95 was released.
There was absolutely no way you could compare a PC to a Mac prior to this.
The Mac ruled and I looked down at PC's with utter disdain.Things have changed dramatically since then.
Windows XP is an excellent OS but still not as pretty to look at as OSX.
But despite how pretty OSX is, I still feel that XP is more functional in how you use it.
Macs are now PC hardware based because over time PC hardware developed far faster and produced much better results than the dead ends Apple ventured down. Anyone remember how Apple insisted PowerPC processors were the future?Today, I am not a fanboy of PC's or Macs because I now regard all computers as tools and not fashion items. It is nice to have pretty looking hardware but not essential.
If spending my own money I would always buy a PC for bang for buck and a greater choice of software. Plus being able to play Call of Duty in all its glory!
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Actually, the only computer I felt any real passion for was the Commodore Amiga. With the Directory Opus file manager installed it did all I needed at the time. That was the first machine I saw running 3D software. It was called Lightwave 3D Version 1.0. At that time neither PCs nor Macs were capable of running such wonderful software.
Sorry for getting all nostalgic.Regards
Mr S -
Hmm, since one cannot measure "pretty" and "ugly" I'll leave that up to the individual. Both are tools to get a task done. I guess when my desktop needs to be pretty under my desk that will matter
or when I care how pretty the case is. To each their own.
I guess people go to the hardware to get a pretty hammer
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