Impressive Sketchup House model needed
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Ah! Point taken.
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Great thread, but I'm surprised with all the talk about any work being offered for free as being wrong, that no-one has mentioned how much benefit people are getting from this free forum, from free ruby scripts, and even free SketchUp.
I think it was Ross some pages back who mentioned it could be of benefit to vanity or someone with a packaged houseplans business. For someone selling houseplans online, all it would take is one sale based on this to make it worthwhile to them.
Isn't it better to receive the offer, than not at all?
I agree that doing bespoke work from a professional architect almost certainly sends the wrong message. That seems like a different issue though. I'd love to see what academic research says about client perceptions of fees and pricing structure by architects. Might make for another interesting thread...
William
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The Royal Institute of British Architects has undertaken a lot of excellent research and reading on the subject; search results for "fees" came up with 819 hits. They can be found here. Hit #1 is (as you would expect) of particular relevance regarding the relationship between fees and design quality. It can be found here.
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Cheers for the links jackson, some interesting reading there.
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Architects, lawyers, doctors, investment bankers, plumbers, gardeners, cobblers..., there are good ones, mediocre ones, and downright bad ones. Some charge high fees, some charge low fees. Caveat emptor.
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I have not yet met great architect or product designer charging low fees. Great design demands considerate approach and a lot of testing which require time. It is as simple as that....
You might go easy on that coffee mate
Every time I see your avatar I go and switch on my espresso machine. -
Interesting thread. It has been my experience that many if not most clients do not understand what architects do, and therefore don't understand why our fees seem so high. After all, how long does it take to draw a building? They don't see the many hours of coordination, code and zoning research, meetings, and not to mention the act of designing itself. All they see is a final set of drawings, which by themselves may not have taken that long to execute. This is especially true with residential clients. The proliferation of house plan books doesn't help, either.
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These do not help much either.
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@sepo said:
I have not yet met great architect or product designer charging low fees. Great design demands considerate approach and a lot of testing which require time. It is as simple as that....
You might go easy on that coffee mate Every time I see your avatar I go and switch on my espresso machine.I have seen lots of so-called bigtime architects who cater to rich clients charge outrageous fees for uninspired designs and on the other hand I know a few young architects who work out of their homes and design stunning homes for much less. It's all relative...
I hope you are buying 'free trade' coffee. I just got back from Mexico and now pour tequila on my morning cereal.
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DE, surely they are the more extreme cases and as such dont represent the majority of architects?
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You are right, Solo, but I think the real problem with such software (including SU) is that they are so easy to use any Joe can come along and think since he knows how to use the software he thinks can design architecture.
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@remus said:
DE, surely they are the more extreme cases and as such dont represent the majority of architects?
Perhaps its only a minority because young freash inspired tal;ent has to find a way to get business - so they go as cheap as possible until they can prove themselves worthy. And hopefully they don't turn into overpriced stagnant firms as they increase in age. But if they do, a new set of young inspired designers will compete with them at a lower price.
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It reminds me of discussions I had years ago regarding the advertising business: "every client gets the advertising they deserve." Applies in architectue too -- hamstring the architect's freedom of design with too many requirements, or pay as little as possible, and the client will have hired a draftsman, not an inspired artist/engineer/sociologist/psycholigist and whatever else you want to throw into the mix of the job description.
And Sepo, you're not alone: when I see the DE avatar I get another cup too! (Free trade.)
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Just an aside about the original subject: I understand that most architectural periodicals (at least in our parts, where they generally run at a loss) do not pay for the material they are given about the projects they publish. They might pay their critic, but usually the designer provides the images and plans free of charge.
Anssi
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@chris fullmer said:
@remus said:
DE, surely they are the more extreme cases and as such dont represent the majority of architects?
Perhaps its only a minority because young freash inspired tal;ent has to find a way to get business - so they go as cheap as possible until they can prove themselves worthy. And hopefully they don't turn into overpriced stagnant firms as they increase in age. But if they do, a new set of young inspired designers will compete with them at a lower price.
There you go. Well said Chris.
Try this boys...
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Again, I'd suggest to go with Lavazza or Illy.
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@unknownuser said:
Again, I'd suggest to go with Lavazza or Illy.
Considering your moniker, I thought this would be your coffee of choice.
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With products like these we won't need designers.
Al Hart
IRender nXt from Render Plus -
A couple of years ago I took over some contruction drawings from an architect for a small home. The design was nothing to crow about but it seemed to have a flow and interesting features. It was hand drafted and to say the least the details were weak if not showing a lack of understanding of common balloon framed construction features. The elevations were poorly done and the overall quality of the job I would rate as less than satisfactory.
Total fees to the client amounted to thirty-thousand dollars ($30,000).
My fee for creating new drawings from the ground up that can be submitted to the city and built in the real world? $2,000.
Never have I charged 30 grand for a small single family home or anything for that matter. In fact I have made less in one year than what this architect charged to her client.
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@unknownuser said:
Never have I charged 30 grand for a small single family home or anything for that matter. In fact I have made less in one year than what this architect charged to her client.
I remember sitting in a meeting a few years ago where the project manager of one of the largest UK contractors was complaining about the poor quality of construction drawings & documentation from the office of probably the most famous modern British architect. It is however a fact that when this architect is associated with a project it adds immediate value to the venture, irrespective of the technical merits of his information.
Value in the design world is a perceptual entity. Unfortunately some designers undermine this truth by selling services based on price and not on value.
When you can convince your clients that you are adding value to their projects, price becomes a secondary issue. This is a skill that only a small minority of designers understand and exploit.Some do excellent work but never achieve the association with value and therefore have to work for very low fees. Others like those above are in a position to sell their services at higher remuneration despite deficiencies in their production flow. What we need to aspire to as designers, is creating an association of our services with perceptual value based on a foundation of real competency.
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