Google Sketchup Pro 7 is out
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Rick, although i agree with most of what youve said, i think SU has moved on form its sketched based origins. It is so easy to create hugely detailed models, if only SU was faster!
Larry, i have to agree. I cant help but think a huge amount of hassle could have been prevented if there was a good dialogue between developers and users.
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They clearly need to issue a formal plan stating the direction they are headed with the software. If they would have discussed it, this entire thread wouldn't exist.
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ignoring multicore these days is a complete joke to me. it's totally clear for everyone that there will be no substantial improvements in processor speed in the near future - the future is multicore! ok, implementing multicore usage for modeling seems to be not that easy but i think i has to be done because it's seems to be the only way to speed things up. And why not using multicore for the rendering part? seeing 3 cores sleeping while exporting a picture takes half an hour is really annoying...
definition of "semi high poly":
this skp file has 140mb on the hdd and needs ~1gb ram! and i would call it only "semi high poly". in max i can handle 7 mio polys or more without such big problems...and it's not only about display and modeling speed... saving such big files is veeery slow in skp and importing objects with some 100k polys is taking ages. when i have to copy/paste only a few polys from this skp file to another sometimes i wait for 15-30 min before skp is responding again...
and 64bit support becomes quite useful if you try to export a model like this for rendering (or as dwg/3ds) and skp likes to crash at ~1.6gb ram usage...
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it is a shame so many of you feel very disappointed about this release, maybe it was always impossible for Google to meet up such great expectations and waiting so long to release V7 only increased it by 10 fold. Now don't forget that when you pay peanuts you get monkeys... i am sorry to say some of you expected a version capable to deliver what a five times more expensive application still does not! I still think that pound for pound this application remains one of the easiest to learn and use and fills a niche of the market that few others can compete with and if you are after something more sophisticated then there's dozens of other programs out there that you should try, but don't expect it to meet all your expectations. I have used a few and despite the incredible progress most developers can still learn one thing or two from this humble application....
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@rickw said:
A big one is that ruby scripts can now bypass a lot of UI calls and boost performance (by around 2x) when creating/querying geometry. This has been a bottleneck for 3 versions, and is now fixed!
That is very good to hear. Ruby speed was another of my wishes. Would you happen to know; is the SU UI more responsive when a ruby is working now? In SU6 when a ruby did some working and displayed a progressbar, the instant you switched focus away from SU the SU UI would flicker madly for a couple of seconds before it didn't update until the ruby was finished, making it impossible to know if the ruby had stalled or not, or get any more info to when it'd complete.
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Brad Schell once commented that the intent of @Last was to develop the core product and let third-party ruby authors create peripheral capabilities. That intent is apparently still the driving force with Google now, since SU7 has improved the core significantly. No, it's not all bells and whistles (that's what ruby is for, in part), it's a more stable, more versatile platform. It's also still called SketchUp.
It seems we have all just gotten so used to pushing it so far beyond its intended capabilities that we want/expect the combined capability of Rhino/Modo/Maya/Max/fill-in-the-blank wrapped in the familiar SU interface, and we want it last year.I understand/sympathize/agree with the multicore, high-poly, shadow-bug-fix disappointments. I've also been alternately thrilled (new/requested capabilities and fixes to reported bugs) and disappointed (a few unfixed anomalies) with ruby issues as well. But considering what I can accomplish in 7 versus 6, I'm moving forward.
Similar complaints surrounded the release of 6, since few realized the huge potential that was added through ruby enhancements (observers and webDialogs). We still have yet to really hit the broader potential of those new features. There are similar enhancements to 7 that are either unnoticed/unknown or as-yet-underappreciated. A big one is that ruby scripts can now bypass a lot of UI calls and boost performance (by up to 2x) when creating/querying geometry. This has been a bottleneck for 3 versions, and is now fixed! I also think the power of DCs is unappreciated. There is HUGE potential waiting for 3rd party developers here, FAR BEYOND just prebuilt manufacturers' components (he said, with a knowing smile).
As for some of the rancor in this thread, my goodness - it sounds worse than tomsdesk, solo, bellwells, and me in a political discussion!
(I am glad we can all still be friends, even after that)Bottom line:
Was it everything that everyone wanted? No. Clearly no.
Is it an improvement over 6? Yes. Tremendous. And (as yet) unappreciated. -
@rickw said:
Brad Schell once commented that the intent of @Last was to develop the core product and let third-party ruby authors create peripheral capabilities. That intent is apparently still the driving force with Google now, since SU7 has improved the core significantly.
Agreed Rick.
I refer to a session at 3DBC 2008 - "Maxing Out Your Productivity with Ruby Scripts" where Tyler Miller spoke of Google's slant on Ruby....
http://sites.google.com/site/3dbasecamp2008/all-sessions-2008/maxing-out-your-productivity-with-ruby-scripts
Scroll through to 41 minutes, 20 seconds...Quote:"A word about how these API’s kinda come out…you would think the main desire here is for us to provide the ability to create a bunch of new tools for SketchUp…the reality is it come about ‘cause we’re kind of lazy as developers……. And ah, we get overwhelmed with all these requests and, ah we think “how can we sucker other peopleinto doing this for us….” unquote
I'm sure you remember Rick, you had just left the lectern!!!
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I was using the trial version of SketchUp Pro 7 and I must say that in my humble opinion, I feel desepcionado Aldo, I thought that going to be faced with a version passed completely, with a lot more modeling tools taking as examples the number of plugins that are on everything in this forum, but only parts of the expanded program, it appears that users, advanced by calling them in some way are not the priority for developers, there was not even a change of interface as to say, it will change the face Not because it is necessary, if not compensate for waiting so long, I hope that any updates are remedied this, greetings to all and anyway thanks for a new version that makes this remains so alive.
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@utiler said:
I refer to a session at 3DBC 2008 - "Maxing Out Your Productivity with Ruby Scripts" where Tyler Miller spoke of Google's slant on Ruby....
http://sites.google.com/site/3dbasecamp2008/all-sessions-2008/maxing-out-your-productivity-with-ruby-scripts
Scroll through to 41 minutes, 20 seconds...Quote:"A word about how these API’s kinda come out…you would think the main desire here is for us to provide the ability to create a bunch of new tools for SketchUp…the reality is it come about ‘cause we’re kind of lazy as developers……. And ah, we get overwhelmed with all these requests and, ah we think “how can we sucker other peopleinto doing this for us….” unquote
I'm sure you remember Rick, you had just left the lectern!!!
Ah, good times! Yep, I remember (and am looking forward to the next 3DBC) - I also remember laughing about it - both the truth and the humor of the situation
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A quick maybe stupid question, I want to upgrade to SU7 to check it out for myself, will this overwrite my SU6? Will I have to buy a full license to SU7 if I want to keep SU6 and SU7? Thanks.
Mike
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@alpro said:
A quick maybe stupid question, I want to upgrade to SU7 to check it out for myself, will this overwrite my SU6? Will I have to buy a full license to SU7 if I want to keep SU6 and SU7? Thanks.
No, the two versions will peacefully coexist - better than some forum members, even!
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@unknownuser said:
Rick wrote:
No, the two versions will peacefully coexist - better than some forum members, even!
At least we get threads going, agreeing is overated afterall.
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One important issue that nobody mentioned is.... drum roll. Does the Drape tool work without bugsplates in SU7?
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I agree Solo....
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Thanks for the info, now to get that upgrade.
Mike
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@unknownuser said:
A quick maybe stupid question, I want to upgrade to SU7 to check it out for myself, will this overwrite my SU6?
That was not so evident because
here or there was not the same !
Second was seem overpass the previus version yesterday
First is cool today! -
I'm a bit surprised that the Leopard hang is still present. Good thing ThawUp didn't assume SU7 would fix it.
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@remus said:
i think SU has moved on form its sketched based origins.
hehe - yeah, we kidnapped it and took it with us
But seriously, that is, I think, the root of the whole problem here - the difference between @Last/Google's intent and the users' collective intent. They still see it as SketchUp, while we tend to see it as IWantItToDoEverythingThatTheSoftwareIDoNotWantToSpendTheTimeOrMoneyOnCanDoUp. The turmoil comes from the different expectations...
@thomthom said:
@rickw said:
A big one is that ruby scripts can now bypass a lot of UI calls and boost performance (by up to 2x) when creating/querying geometry. This has been a bottleneck for 3 versions, and is now fixed!
That is very good to hear. Ruby speed was another of my wishes. Would you happen to know; is the SU UI more responsive when a ruby is working now? In SU6 when a ruby did some working and displayed a progressbar, the instant you switched focus away from SU the SU UI would flicker madly for a couple of seconds before it didn't update until the ruby was finished, making it impossible to know if the ruby had stalled or not, or get any more info to when it'd complete.
I haven't checked that particular issue yet. It's been on my pester-my-Google-friends list for some time
EDIT: Just tried the lose-focus issue with ImageProfile in SU7. Mixed reviews: if the window is not covered up by another app, losing focus doesn't lose status bar updates (I started the IP process, then clicked on my browser in another monitor, still got feedback). However, when I restored Excel over SU then tried to refocus on SU, got a blank screen until it was done processing (less than a minute).
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@chango70 said:
One important issue that nobody mentioned is.... drum roll. Does the Drape tool work without bugsplats in SU7?
Generally yes it works incredibly better than it did in 6. I was having quite a few problems with this myself. This is one of the areas where they said they did some significant core cleaning to get this feature to work much more predictably. I think it worked!
Chris
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@unknownuser said:
Yes Scott, but the fact of the matter is that those applications don't support inferencing and/or not in such a superb way.
If I turn off Edges and Profiles I can easily handle 500.000 Faces as well. But I was earlier talking about a model with just 50K Faces in a normal inference enabled scene. When you turn off Edges and Profile the inference engine is likely to be switched off as well (though I'm not sure about this) and whatever be the case it DOES provide me with 10x higher framerate.Sorry Coen, but when I need to turn off this and turn off that to get the program to operate like it should that is not a direct comparison....really not a comparison at all. Not to mention half a million faces, is still, half a million short of many other programs capabilities.
I am not sure why all the negative tone from you towards anyone saying a bad thing about V7. We are all talking, complaining, or offering suggestions to a piece of software we all fell in love with and for many they still are (me? not so much but hoping google will come back around soon). I credit you for standing so strongly behind Sketchup, and Google, I truly do, but it does not take a rocket scientist to see how Sketchup is not stacking up next to many other modelers. Sorry but inferencing is not the holy grail in modeling.
Is it cheaper thank most..Yes but than again look at Silo ($159 for a great sub-surface modeler and capable of far better poly handling...but damn....no layout!)
Is it a bit easier to learn than most...sure at first but anyone with aptitude can pick up most modelers with a manual or a decent video tutorial and a few hours.
Is it keeping up with current trends or breaking new ground....No (let the flood gates open). In my and many other opinions I have read, people feel slighted by Google for putting out a subpar (at best) release. We all wanted and (after 18 months) hoped we would get more than this. Honestly how often is a model displayed without shadows turned on? So there is some legal constraints on the shadow algorithm....then buy or write a new way! Fix the damn thing not dump god knows how many hours into Playout...oops...LAYOUT.For any presentation I have ever done I have never used layout. I would rather used a polished program such as InDesign, Illustrator, or Photoshop. It was said by someone else (sorry don't have the time to go through all the posts) that they have yet to see a truly professional presentation done in Layout that would change their mind into using it.....me either.
Why do I have to upgrade (thank god not on my dime) to stay current for clients who will surely be making the upgrade.
Scott
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