Do humans have a free will?
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Yes Mike, you are right,
Jesus Christ āhad a good senseā for everythingā¦ but majorities, seeing a text like this:"Blessed are you when others revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account. Rejoice and be gladā¦.ā (Matthew 5:11-12)
,ā¦ they won't understandā¦
It's a kind of "magic" joy, Solo!
Cornel
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@unknownuser said:
ānonspiritual manā
(...)
āa beastly manā.
Hmm ... "Beastly": "lacking intelligence or reason", "resembling a beast", "abominable". Very nice, Cornel. The Word of God, eh? Shove it. Deep.
I have no problem with religious folk whatsoever, but the likes of you? Reli-racists, the lot of ya. Elitist, arrogant twats.
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Cornel, to me, you don't sound like you have a lot of joy. I can't imagine that you are a happy soul. Everything you write is so dour and sad. I wish you could let go of your burden and have some more fun.
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@unknownuser said:
..."Blessed are you when others revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account. Rejoice and be gladā¦.ā...Cornel
This explains a lot! :`)
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@solo said:
...I too am athiest...
I make choices based on my values and morals and I accept the consequences of those decisions, this gives me the conclusion that I have free will.Pete, as an Athiest where do you get your values and morals? Curious.
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Eric, good question.
I believe in man, I honestly live with a belief that the majority of people are good with good intentions.
I was brought up to trust people until they prove untrustworthy, respect people unless they show disrespect and obey the laws of the land.
I try to help when and how I can and not because I am told to or required to, I treat people the way I hope they would recipricate, I try and teach my kids honor and character based on the way I live my life and not by a set of biblical rules.I evaluate myself constantly and try live a life of virtue, and not for a reward of everlasting life in heaven.
I do not believe christianity/religion has a copyright on morals, actually based on what I have seen religion is responsible for more hatred and death, not forgetting deceit, pedophillia, martyrdom and greed to be even closely associated with good morals and honest values.
Atheists have nothing to fall back on. We are on our own and it is necessary for us to find a moral life. We have to be objective and rational. Mysticism won't work and we know it. Atheists have something no religious person can enjoy and that is the certainty that our moral decisions are based upon a knowledge founded in reality and not faith in some unprovable, murky mystic awareness. Faith is belief without knowledge.
okay lets lighten this up a bit ....
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Pete, faith is not belief without knowledge, it is belief without proof. Subtle but critical distinction.
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Stinkie,
You didnāt follow my advice to see Bible contexts of terms such ānonspiritual manā or āa beastly manāā¦! Using a āsearch machineā or a āconcordanceā, you can find many instances of them and you will be elucidated!Susan,
Iām not fanatic, masochist, machiavellist, āunder burdenā, ādour and sadā, etc. and I have more than enough fun, but I cannot aford to alterate Godās Word.
For example I cannot name a sin as: a mistake, a defect, an imperfection, an inconvenient, etc. Why?!:
āFor the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.ā (Romans 6:23)Tomsdesk,
Iām wondering if āThis explains a lot!ā, because, at first, we have to clarify Jesus Christ included expression: āon my accountā.Pete & Ron,
Faith is a belief with proof. (ā¦not subtleā¦). Just an example:
āā¦ and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.ā (Malachi 3:10)Cornel
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Mike,
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My Bible is The Word of God, I'm sure about that, because:
āFor the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart.ā (Hebrews 4:12)
...and because:
āā¦the word of the Lord remains forever.ā (1 Peter 1:25)
... and because It's true (John 17:17) -
Re. your questions:
āDo animals have free will?.... Are we not animals also?ā
No, we arenātā¦
Not only the bestiality is a separative criterionā¦!Cornel
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Cornel,
Just curious! Do you have any interest in SketchUp. Do you use
it at work? I'd like to hear a little about you and what you do,
work, fun, family etc.Mike
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Mike, I was thinking the same thing. Cornel has selected the SketchUp Forum to participate in but, given the subjects he chooses, he could be on any forum.
Why the SketchUp Forum Cornel? Do you use it in your work at all? Why is religion the only topic you ever discuss here? If it is the SketchUp Forum that is important to you, surely you want to contribute to SketchUp knowledge, or perhaps ask SketchUp related questions.
It's time to learn something more about you. -
You sound very accomplished. It is enough for now, but we will want to know more and we will want to know your opinion on things technical as well. It's so nice to have to write about yourself and something a little different for a change.
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Very Impressive Cornel.
I found a fitting quote.
"but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears." 1 Corinthians 13 vs 9-11
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Now, now Pete ..... it must be catching
Thats a lot of knowledge there Cornel. I'd love to have a couple
of languages, Spanish and maybe French. Oh! I am reasonably
proficient in Gaelic. What languages do you actually speak? -
@unknownuser said:
Stinkie,
You didnāt follow my advice to see Bible contexts of terms such ānonspiritual manā or āa beastly manāā¦! Using a āsearch machineā or a āconcordanceā, you can find many instances of them and you will be elucidated!Am I to take it that the Bible defines 'beastly' in another way than Webster's does, and if so, how precisely?
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@bellwells said:
Pete, faith is not belief without knowledge, it is belief without proof. Subtle but critical distinction.
Ron, any knowledge thats worth two cents can be PROVED! Otherwise its speculation at best, hocus pocus at worst. Do you really think people should lay down their life for speculation? Where is the morality of that? There is this wonderful talk by Dan Dennett on Dangerious Memes http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/dan_dennett_on_dangerous_memes.html which applies to all religions and ideologies. Religion is like a virus or parasite. To use a Deleuzian term, they have the same 'engineering diagram'.
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Susan,
Iām w/ SU forum since SU v.3 and I was involved inclusive in ātehnicalsā, (especialy
in former forum), but now, there are a lot of specialists, dedicated and prompt, willing to share their experience. My time is very limited (projects, consulting, library, grand children, etc.)Stinkie,
To be āprecisellyā, start w/ those:
Romans 7:5, 7:18-25, 8:3, 8:20, 13:4,
1 Corinthians 2:14, 15:44-46; 2 Corinthians 10:2-3, 11:8
Galatians 3:3, 5:13-17, 5:24, 6:8
Colossians 2:13, etc.
Itās easy to use āBible onlineā because you can switch to different Bible versions (or diff. languages), or change passages. Very helpful also is the keyword search machineā¦Cornel
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Mike & Susan,
Iām giving you only my partial āskeletonā... I have no time for details or stories.
(I donāt know how curious are you...and, besides that, Iām an old ācollectionistā...)I lived in different kind of countries (Popular/Republic, Socialist/Communist, Capitalist/Imperialist) and continents.
I know several languages, English is the fifth.I have two masters (Architecture and Urban Planning), several related majors (Interior Design/Decorations, Interior Architect & Industrial Design) plus two majors in Fine Arts (Picture & Sculpture). I worked also, temporary, or part time in paralel w/ main activity, in many other total different āfieldsā.
Programs:
CAD: Iām expert in Cadvance, DataCad, Architectural Desktop, proficient in Vectorworks, Archicad, familiar w/ Revit, Allplan, Solidworks, Rhino, etc.
Modeling/Rendering: SketchUp, 3D Studio Max, Accurender, Artlantis , Piranesi., etc
Photo editind & painting: Graphic Suites of Adobe and Corel, Paint 3D, etc
Miscellaneous: tens of other important programs and utilities.Sports: Soccer, Martial Arts, Acrobatics, Alpinism, Deltaplane etc.
Is this list enough for this āsesionā?
"Just curious!" (my turn..)Cornel
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Dan Dennett on Dangerious Memes was a good listen, thanks for
the link. I'd forgotten about TED, some really great talks there and
well worth staying up to date with what's going on
Also watched Al Seckel: Your brain is badly wired -- enjoy it!
He makes some good points on how its not possible for many people
to 'see' what are looking at. Crazy Nuts is a good case in point. -
I thought this topic doesn't have to relate again to religion, but as it has been mentioned already few times, I want to share with you some of my thoughts.
@solo said:
I evaluate myself constantly and try live a life of virtue, and not for a reward of everlasting life in heaven.
This a very common misinterpretation of the Christianity. There is NOTHING a Christian can do get to heaven. It works in an opposite way. I will get to heaven because I believe in love and also 'I evaluate myself constantly and try live a life of virtue' not in order to get there but from pure thankfulness I have discovered a path of love. We are not that different, Pete.
@solo said:
I do not believe Christianity/religion has a copyright on morals, actually based on what I have seen religion is responsible for more hatred and death, not forgetting deceit, paedophilia, martyrdom and greed to be even closely associated with good morals and honest values.
I do not believe Christianity/religion has a copyright on morals, neither. You are right. When I think of all crusades, all fights amongst Italian families to put their member as a pope I see how far can idea of a Kingdom can be warped, lost and used for completely different purposes.
@solo said:
Atheists have nothing to fall back on. We are on our own and it is necessary for us to find a moral life. We have to be objective and rational. Mysticism won't work and we know it. Atheists have something no religious person can enjoy and that is the certainty that our moral decisions are based upon a knowledge founded in reality and not faith in some unprovable, murky mystic awareness. Faith is belief without knowledge.
Mysticism it is a window through you can see what is outside. It doesn't mean that a mystic is someone irrational and non-objective. Such a person has just deeper knowledge of what you don't want or don't care to accept as a truth.
Pure Christianity wouldn't deprive you of knowledge founded in reality. It would just enhance your scope of awareness. It is an invitation to a wedding party organized by someone who has brought all our reality to an existence. Many say - I do not care. I have a work to do. I have to visit my relatives. Let other go. I won't.
@chango70 said:
There is this wonderful talk by Dan Dennett on Dangerious Memes http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/dan_dennett_on_dangerous_memes.html which applies to all religions and ideologies. Religion is like a virus or parasite.
Chango, thank you for the link. It was really inspiring to listen to this man. Your problem is that you just hear what you want to hear, not what he said.
He was relating to ideas that are being misused or abused. This the reason why they can be dangerous and work like parasites. Listen to it once again. He is not talking about religions in general, but those misinterpretations that are toxic.
Tomasz
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