Religion anyone?
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@rickw said:
@chango70 said:
Come on Pete, give religion a break eh? I mean all these stupid people out there who don't understand science need something to make them feel good about themselves.
Wow, I didn't realize I was stupid, didn't understand science, and needed something to make me feel good about myself. Thanks for enlightening me.
It was meant as a sarcastic joke poking fun at fundamentalists shown on the video Pete posted. I am keenly aware of the contribution of Religion in literature, art and scientific thinking. However, those thinkers could hardly be classified as literal interpreters of the holy scripture.
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@chango70 said:
I am keenly aware of the contribution of Religion in literature, art and scientific thinking.
Sorry, exactly what contribution to scientific thinking? Or literature come to that? I'll grant that some great art has been produced for (not by) religious institutions. But usually by an artist who was inspired by the need to pay the bills, not inspired by divinity.
Contributions to bigotry, persecution, and small-minded stupidity would be more accurate.
A.
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The man that more than any other credited with kick starting the scientific revolution was 15th Century theologeon Thomas Aquinas. He posited a thesis in which God as a creator set in motion the laws of nature and do not interfere (no freakin' miracles). Sounds familier? Because it is a scientic view of nature. Mendelson who proved genetic inheritance was a monk. More than that the scholarly network of monastries were responsible for the study and safe-keeping of earlier Greek philosophers in particular Aristotle. Literature and art? Just visit any national museum. I'd rate Confessions by St Augustine and Devine Comedy by Dante Alighieri as great examples of religion inspired literature. Can Homer's Odyssey be read without the tampering of man's fate by jealous Olympians? Have you not heard of the Hindu verdic epic poems? they are some of mankinds earliest examples of literature. Religous thinking (personal relationship with God) offer people a convenient and radical way of circumventing the conventions of society which can be more stiffling to progress. However as I said before non of the afforementioned thinkers ever for a second took the holy scripture at face value.
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@chango70 said:
The man that more than any other credited with kick starting the scientific revolution was 15th Century theologeon Thomas Aquinas. He posited a thesis in which God as a creator set in motion the laws of nature and do not interfere (no freakin' miracles). Sounds familier? Because it is a scientic view of nature.
Sorry chango, we'll have to agree to disagree on this. Any thesis which begins with God as creator cannot be described as scientific.
A.
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"Scientific"?! Cognizant?!
See Romans 11:33 (two translations):
“Oh, how great are God’s riches and wisdom and knowledge! How impossible it is for us to understand His decisions and His ways!”“O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are His judgments, and His ways past finding out!”
Cornel
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Well if we don't get too hang-up on the words 'scientific' and 'regligioius' and how they are set up as THE dichotomy of our time then it is perhaps not to hard to see that scientific enquiry do not preclude the existence of God, however it just makes it extremely unlikely to be anything resembling beliefs held by existing organised religion. Science has no means to exclude the CONCEPT of God, it is in a position to disaprove claims of truth from most of the existing scriptured religions.
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Agnosticsm is the only reasonable course of action.
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“For the wisdom of this worldis foolishness with God. For it is written, He that taketh the wise in their craftiness” (1 Corinthians 3:19 )
…”The simple inherit folly; but the prudent are crowned with knowledge.” (Proverbs 14:18)
Are we “prudents”?!!
Cornel
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hehe Pete you have opened Pandora box... You will have whole Bible belt over your back... or ass.
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Look in the History!
Majorities of REAL (“prudent”) scientists were devoted christians,
and “thousands upon thousands have died... over the past 2000 years. Thousands continue to die.”, “standing on the side of reality”.Cornel
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Yeah right but also large number of scientest were killed by the Church in the name of God. I wonder how many of the ones survived were really Christians or where they just putting the act so that they could be left alone. I am afraid Religion ( I mean organized form ) was certainly beeing used to do pilage ,rape and murder.....and that is the case still today... Organised religion is just another mechanism to control humanity... Thank you very much ...not good for me....
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There's no such thing as "reality". There just a working hypothesis that's good for one set of circumstances but not another.
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Re Alan’s ideea: “There's no such thing as "reality".”
There is “such thing”, because there were/are a lot of FALSE (and 'speculative'...) scientists, teachers, prophets, etc.
Cornel
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Right and who is to say who was real. How do you decide which prophet was real and which was not. I supose you will tell me it is all written in the scriptures....which is not good enough... The Bible itself was edited for about 300 years before publishing. How convinient is that.
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@unknownuser said:
There is “such thing”, because there were/are a lot of FALSE (and 'speculative'...) scientists, teachers, prophets, etc.
Cornel
Yes, like Creationists and End Timers for starters.
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And here I was thinking that 'reality' refers to something that is factually real, not thought to be real. silly me.
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Sepo,
Re. your question: “How do you decide which prophet was real and which was not?”If prophetic announcements are fulfill they are true (real).
If there is a ‘collection’ of many, and majorities of them are already exactly (on detail) fulfilled, a few remained propheties can be considered as true.
Alan,
Creationists use God’s Word as reference, because only God is absolut!
(Humans are relative...)Cornel
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Hmmm. Can you please give me an example of any prophet which announced stuff and it was proven to be correct and may I add something recent.
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Humans are relative, true...and humans invented a good part of the Bible. Some might be the word of God, but most of it is ancient myth and Jewish propaganda.
For instance...according to Genesis:
God created light and dark on the first day...but didn't create the sun, moon and stars until the fourth day. How does that work then?....and I don't want to hear any nonesense like "God can do anything." That's just ducking the issue. If God created this universe he created the laws of physics that govern it.He created the waters before he created any land....what from?
I believe that even Creationists would have to agree that all life ultimately derives from the sun and the energy it bestows on us daily...so how come the earth was vegetated a day before the sun was created?
Creationists keep repeating the lie that there is no evidence for Evolution...like if they say it often enough it will miraculously become true. The fact is that every museum and research lab on earth is full of incontravertible evidence for Evolution. Even The Pope and the Archbishop of Canterbury have no problem reconciling the two...just idiot fundamentalists.
I find it very hard to believe that every single person in Sodom and Gomorrah, other than Lot, was a sinner; even the new-born and those honest, simple people just trying to get on with life? What kind of God would destroy them all for being little more than lewd and licentious in the eyes of others? And what kind of God would then not detroy societies that have practiced far worse things? They weren't exactly ripping out people's beating hearts before kicking them down temple steps, were they?
S & G were destroyed by natural catastrophy....and Jewish propagandists of the time attributed it to God...exactly like the self-righteous idiots in this clip.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVDbvkBS7IwTHIS is the way "The Word of God" starts out.
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While are we on the subject we have here something called Jesus Army which prays on volotile and young people , make them signed up and take their all values including a paycheck. In return they get lodging while the bosses live in pretty nice big stately homes. Oh Yes I forgot they get unifrom and get to sing every now and then in town... Recently they make a big fuss in town demanding that Charles Darwin to be covered in the Museum.... I do not have problem with people believing in anything they want, but when they start pushing me in corner and paddling their stuff than I have to react.... We also have number of young American in the Amish like outfitts walking door to door bashing with their holly books.... Please keep those in your BB we relly do not want them here.
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