2017 is here

JQL · 8 Nov 2016, 18:44

I am impressed with the LO updates though, I hope the actual lives up to webpage I read on it..

They do live up. DWG export from Layout is really good!

It can be better, as some dimensions aren't nicelly converted and viewports are visible and printable but it's very very good. Finally!

This one, by itself, really justifies the upgrade for me!

But then you have tables that do work and an incredible new dimension tool that does really update as you work on the model.

Layout 2017 is the best one yet and several notches ahead it's predecessor.

CalypsoArt · 8 Nov 2016, 18:56

@jql said:

@juju said:

I am impressed with the LO updates though, I hope the actual lives up to webpage I read on it..

They do live up. DWG export from Layout is really good!
...and an incredible new dimension tool that does really update as you work on the model.

Layout 2017 is the best one yet and several notches ahead it's predecessor.

Are you say that dimensions in a LO drawing now update if the model is changed? That might induce me to look at LO again.

david. · 8 Nov 2016, 19:15

The problem that I've found, so far, is that my 3Dconnexion SpaceNavigator doesn't work in SU 2017. The buttons work, but the 3D mouse will not pan/zoom/rotate/orbit my model. It works fine in SU 2016 installed on the same PC. Anyone else experience this issue?

gio · 8 Nov 2016, 19:22

@jql said:

@juju said:

I am impressed with the LO updates though, I hope the actual lives up to webpage I read on it..

They do live up. DWG export from Layout is really good!

Can you tell me (but maybe it doesn't make sense anyway in LO) if SU components are exported as AC blocks?

Thank you,
Gio

ValmontR · 8 Nov 2016, 19:26

The new engine is nothing short of incredible. I don't remember any program getting this much of an upgrade in many, many years. Do I have wishes? SURE! I'd love to have real layer management and hierarchy, but I'm as happy as a pig in dung right now!

The other really exciting thing is I can use SU on hires screens. The line used to be nearly invisible and impossible to choose. It is beautiful now.

Cheers,
ralph

numerobis · 8 Nov 2016, 20:02

@juju said:

if it's texture related it will help a lot already seeing that the more textures you have in your model the bigger the file size and thus slower performance

I can't see an improvement. The degradation kicks in earlier than in v2015.
And i always use much smaller textures in the model than in the linked render material. And i doubt that it would be possible to use the original texture now. Even if the performance would be ok - the file size would be gigantic.

numerobis · 8 Nov 2016, 20:03

@rich o brien said:

There's no avoiding that 2017 out performs previous releases in terms of viewport performance.

Sorry, i can't see it. The earlier degradation is quite annoying.

@rich o brien said:

They're downplaying the change but the signs are there. 64bit only. No more software rendering. GPUs on OpenGL 3 or above. It's all geared towards a better viewport performance.

Sounds good. We'll see how it develops ...maybe next year.

@rich o brien said:

So it begs the question....what as users do we want in the viewport to help sell designs to clients?

Fancy shaders that bring specular reflections, matcap shaders for NPR, soft shadows, per-pixel shading, ambient occlusion etc....

I need faster geometry processing no fancy shaders.

@rich o brien said:

As a sidenote, upgrading the engine doesn't mean file imports are faster. SketchUp is a surface modeller and anytime you import a mesh it needs to rebuild it, heal edges, assign textures etc...

You can't benchmark it because everyone's setup is different.

You can benchmark it on the same system. Like with any other benchmark.

@rich o brien said:

Did anyone start a SketchUp 2018 Feature Request thread yet???

Seems rather pointless to me. Do you think they ever read them?
But i will copy my list from last year.

Mark H. · 8 Nov 2016, 20:55

@unknownuser said:

OK, so I found the reference on the SketchUp page, any references / benches on how much better / faster it is?

Hi all,

Chiming in on behalf of the team here in Boulder...

As you probably know, 'performance' is a very relative term. It depends heavily on the kind of model you are working with, how it was built, how you're asking SketchUp to render it, and your hardware configuration. That's why we typically don't provide a hard line on how much faster one version of SketchUp is relative to another.

But since this is a pretty big change to our infrastructure, we do want to share some of our own internal speed testing. We test across a variety of models in different scenarios, so the numbers below are non-scientific generalizations that we are reasonably confident in. We don't expect that everyone will have the same experience, of course.

Overall Performance improvement (Windows only):

Up to 50% faster fps with a discrete graphics card

Nicer Transparency *** Numbers are not a typo, it is really 35 and 40 times faster ***

Windows: up to 40x faster
Mac up to 35x faster

Models with back edges on

Windows up to 4x faster
Mac up to 3x faster

Models with Sketchy edges on

Windows up to 1.5x faster

We also think this update lays the foundation for future performance improvements. What the heck do we mean by that? Well, for one thing, we are now using the same rendering pipeline for SketchUp, 3D Warehouse, my.SketchUp, LayOut and SketchUp Mobile Viewer. This means our teams investment in performance can be focused on where it matters (everywhere!) without as much dilution. There are also a lot of really fun performance and rendering improvements we've been researching, but this is kind of where we transition in to speculation mode, and we don't like to do that!

Cheers from Boulder...

andybot · 8 Nov 2016, 21:25

Guess I'll just have to try it out myself! Honestly, I still haven't fully transitioned to 2016 from 2015. Now I'm curious what this engine improvement is all about.

Andy

numerobis · 8 Nov 2016, 22:14

@dave r said:

There are improvements in SU2017. I can see them on my screen when I look at the model, can't you?

I didn't test it myself, i just reacted to the "new features" video.
So what are the improvements? How big are they? I can't believe that they made remarkable improvements and don't show them in their video, while they are promoting the stupiest small new features and fixes as if they wouldn't have to show anything else. So i think they should revise their marketing if they miss to show such important improvements. I didn't even bother to install 2017 after seeing this video, but maybe it is just misleading.

JQL · 8 Nov 2016, 23:03

@calypsoart said:

Are you say that dimensions in a LO drawing now update if the model is changed? That might induce me to look at LO again.

That's exactly what I'm saying and I didn't believe it myself, but the truth is that it works!

The culprit is PID, and I believe it was a great move from Sketchup team. Maybe the best move they made in this version.

For what I understood PID is a persistent ID that every entity gets and keeps until it is deleted from model. If you pushpull a face of a wooden beam, for instance, it is in fact stretching the beam and moving that face. All edges and faces are the same, but they change in geometry.

What this PID seems to do with Layout is magically update dimensions really well. Layout knows that it's sticking a dimension to a given vertice and that vertice has been repositioned so it just changes dimensions accordingly. EVERY dimension in your drawing.

I was very very sceptical this would really work but the fact is that it does.

But there's more. If you have an old LO file and open it in 2017 as I did, your dimensions probably will all show red. This is a sign that they are not connected to a specific entity with a specific PID. If that happens you just have to select all dimensions right click and ask layout to seek for connection points. The fact is that it is then very effective at connecting all dimensions to the Sketchup model and you have persistently updating dimensions from then on.

Test it with a simple model, as I did and you'll see what I mean. Then test it with a complex model as I did, and you'll see how it is really working great!

What's more interesting with these PID numbers is the possibilities they have for new plugins. I remember discussing about plugin features that were impossible to develop, only because Sketchup didn't have this PID... I think this opens up a lot in the long term.

driven · 8 Nov 2016, 23:13

Thanks for chiming in Mark H...

shame Windows gets better results than mac, but I guess they have lots of other OS issues outside of SU...

john

function · 9 Nov 2016, 02:18

function · 9 Nov 2016, 02:19

juju · 9 Nov 2016, 09:07

Thanks for the information Mark H, it's great to see the SketchUp team reading these posts.

@driven said:

shame Windows gets better results than mac, but I guess they have lots of other OS issues outside of SU...

yep many more problems because of greater userbase, greater software compatibility, greater hardware compatibility, etc.

numerobis · 9 Nov 2016, 09:41

@dave r said:

What do you mean? And why won't you just try it and see for yourself?

Ok, i installed it now and i have to say that it doesn't feel faster than v2015. And it seems that the degradation kicks in earlier now compared to v2015, which is quite annoying and less usable (recovery time). With the degradation it is of course faster than the non degraded model in v2015 (e.g. ~16-25fps vs 10-11fps in v2015). But when i take a model that already degrades in v2015, so that i compare degraded vs degraded then they are both the same. No measurable difference.

It would be good if it would be possible to disable the auto degradation as it is in 3DSmax.

All tests without shadows and AA, i7 5960X@4.5GHz | GTX 970, 372.70, 2560x1440px | Win7

vico44 · 9 Nov 2016, 14:18

Wow Faster API!

I work on a small plugin http://sketchucation.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=80%26amp;t=66103
For Big Model SU2016 just can't do it (to much component definition...)
And SU2017 just do it in few seconds...

jgb · 9 Nov 2016, 16:23

So I started to get a hardon (almost as big as Fredos Animator, soon to be installed!!) and I noticed on the downloads list there is NO Windows 32 bit versions (MAKE in particular).

Is this true, no 32bit versions?

So am I stuck with SU-2016 forever till I win a lottery and can afford a system upgrade?

JQL · 9 Nov 2016, 17:05

Yes you are... no 32bit versions, sorry...

ntxdave · 9 Nov 2016, 17:48

I think I am seeing some performance improvement but cannot confirm that yet. One thing that I notice is that if I load a rather large model, when I orbit it all works well but as soon as I try to do anything (add a new component or some other edit, including just updating the toolbar) the lag in painting the screen and its textures shows up again. Seems like it does resolve it quicker but still see the lag.

I do see some value to the perpendicular inference but have not figured out completely how to use it yet. If I have a face that is on an angle and I want to draw another object parallel to that face, it seems like the perpendicular inference would do the trick but the only way I have been able to use it is when I draw a line. Maybe someone will come up with a more detail tutorial or instructions about how to use it more extensively.