How has your music listening changed over the years...?
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You guys have got some serious kit, I remember when I was a young man and investing in a good music system, these days I listen less to music as I did then. I bought a surround sound system a few years ago for a very reasonable price and it seems to do the trick pretty well so far. I am not a purest when it comes to the quality of sound as long as it is crisp to my ear it's fine. Funny thing though, I now listen to more audio books than music, so my tastes certainly have changed with age.
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I think the quality of CD depends a lot on the player and the engineering of the recording.
In my opinion high end CD players match or even better turntables at reproduction, but they don't come cheap.
Where CD falls down is the over use of compression. Major labels compress the hell out of recordings and often engineer the music to sound more like MP3. Sometimes they even use compressed CD recordings to cut the vinyl they put out!
Luckily I mostly buy music from small labels and independent artists who put a lot of effort into the engineering of their music.
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@solo said:
I bought a surround sound system a few years ago for a very reasonable price and it seems to do the trick pretty well so far. I am not a purest when it comes to the quality of sound as long as it is crisp to my ear it's fine.
For most folks a surround system should be more than capable of giving you a great experience. When compared to higher end kit, a lot of people simply can't even hear the difference in sound quality.
I think you need a good ear and a huge music collection to justify paying silly money for a separates system. Even then hi-fi is still a very subjective interest and you'll be lucky to find two people who agree 100% on equipment and setup choices
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@Hieru
It seems you pretty know what I was talking about. CDs
A 16 bit 44.1, and 16 bits should be enough for dynamics. The theory says so.
However, this theory isn't quite right. Some 6 bits are needed for headroom. Algorithms/filters/calculations need it.
Some 4 bits in the lower band of dynamics is also a bit useless. It sounds like the old PCM synthesizers.
So what left?
Now, add this well known compression/maximizers, music up to 16 bits (0 db). Then, Digital to audio converters having trouble handling this information.
CDs don't sound well, whatever player you use. After extracting to a PC hard drive, this machine (VIA a USB or firewire or anything new) becomes a perfect transport (via a perfect bit app player)
Newer D to A DAC chips can add a 3-4 db headroom, great to hear these compressed maximized productions. (see benchmark DAC 2) . Miracles never happen though. The musical information already distorted in the studios (mastering).
It isn't the appropriate forum to add more details about it. I worked (and still working as freelancer) on the mastering and remixing procedure. I'm also experienced on how to deceive listeners. Pitty.
So far away from the days of vinyl, of real to real tapes…
High Definition audio stream is another matter of course.
We bought vinyls, cassettes, CDs, DSDs, now we have to pay again… not fair, not quite if I may. -
I hear what you are saying Michalis and agree with everything up to a certain point.
Accuracy and precision are only part of the story. In the same way mixing can change the qualities of a recording, the equipment used for playback also adds it's own character to the sound. That's why I like the philosophy behind Naim; they aren't necessarily aiming for accuracy, but rather a dynamic and engaging musical experience.
If anything I think a 100% precise reproduction of a recording could sound very flat and clinical. I could be wrong and I'll have to explore the possibilities when the availability of physical formats becomes an issue.
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Naim = tempo, rhythm, swing…
still remember my old nap 250. Missed it.@unknownuser said:
If anything I think a 100% precise reproduction of a recording could sound very flat and clinical.
Depends on the recording.
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Well that's another problem/issue.
In addition to the overuse of compression and higher recording levels, I have noticed a trend towards mixing recordings in a way that is very neutral.
The best recordings in my view are coming from artists who research and try to reproduce techniques used by studios in 70s, 80s and 90s - I'm thinking of vintage funk, dub and hip-hop.
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As Pete said, you guys have some sick audio components there!! Sounds like you both know what your taking about!!!
I too have an expectation that what I think sounds good is good enough; although when you hear good sounds out of a different system you do hear the difference.
On file formats; what is going to give you the highest quality audio? I think iTunes downloads in mp3 from memory....
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@utiler said:
I think iTunes downloads in mp3 from memory....
That's right, although I can't understand why they don't make ALAC available.
If I do buy a digital only release it's rarely from iTunes. I usually buy direct from the artist/label via Bandcamp, where you have a good choice of formats like ALAC & FLAC (I normally grab both of these: ALAC for iTunes and FLAC for burning to CD). Otherwise I'll use Juno download as they offer WAV format.
I don't have much experience with other formats, so Michalis will probably have a much more informed opinion.
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ALAC or FLAC for downloads.
What about high resolution audio?
You need some equipment to play it right of course.
http://www.hdtracks.com/music/hiresI never use iTunes on the mac.
Audirvana plus is a cheap and bit perfect application. It supports FLAC.Foobar on WIN pcs.
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ALAC, FLAC and WAV are the highest resolution available from most online stores. There needs to be a hi-def revolution before that will change.
For anything better there are only a few outlets and the choice of albums is frankly rubbish. It's HDCD all over again.
Then, as you say, you need the right equipment to get the most out of it.
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@unknownuser said:
There needs to be a hi-def revolution before that will change.
The world is way too mobile and compact for such a revolution, majority of people consume music on a mobile device so size and storage is a factor, secondly online streaming is about to take over.
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I just wish that when i buy a digital download off iTunes that you could have option for CD/Vinyl shipping too. I typically like to have the album in hard copy.
I listen mostly on my old Bose system from CD.
I have a Sony system too with that forgotten MiniDisc format which i actually liked.
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@solo said:
.....secondly online streaming is about to take over.
I have a feeling that streaming will eventually lead to a demand for high-def music. It eliminates the storage issue, so you just need the bandwidth and something good enough to make the most of a higher quality format.
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@rich o brien said:
I just wish that when i buy a digital download off iTunes that you could have option for CD/Vinyl shipping too. I typically like to have the album in hard copy.
That's another good reason to use Bandcamp. Whenever you buy a CD or LP, you get an immediate download link and you can stream your purchase using their app.
An added benefit is that you are often putting money directly in the pockets of artists, without a label taking a cut.
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I have a 5.1 ch Yamaha system and until recently I had a turntable to play my vinyls (my collection consists of a thousand or so vinyl singles and LPs)
Mostly I listen to CD's and downloaded music from my iPod these days. But I miss the rawness of the vinyls though.
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I listened to music through cassette player and tape that was way back a decade. Now, I listen to music through computer device and mobile.
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Thanks for the interesting video - the current state of affairs really is depressing.
Here's hoping his predictions for 2020 arrive ahead of schedule.
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How has my music listening changed? Well, as I spent more time in the studio (at school) it occurred to me that not everyone wants to hear lyrics like "I want to f___ you like an animal" by Nine Inch Nails, so I drifted towards less offensive music and now listen to quite a lot of movie soundtracks, especially at work. But in private I still like to turn the sound up on Metallica or House of Pain.
When I was younger, the local pop radio station was de rigueur (it was that, country, or gospel music on the radio). With the advent of satellite radio and ipods, I no longer know what current pop music is.
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