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    Sign for Peace in Palestine UPDATE!

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    • B Offline
      Bhoritz
      last edited by

      @solo said:

      Your opinion is obviously biased as you are Jewish, had you not had a horse in this race I'm sure you would have a different opinion.

      And no, I am not jewish (are you arab?), I am not even a great admirer of Israël that seems to have drifted from the state of its founders into a semi theocratic state looking more and more like other states around it.
      But war is war and terrorism is terrorism. No state can accept to have missiles targeting its civil population without using its military forces to stop that. And if you fire missiles at your neighbour's civilians, you can't complain too much when he retaliates.

      Using capitals does not make your point more valid, only more grandiloquent and ridiculous.

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      • B Offline
        Bhoritz
        last edited by

        @solo said:

        A clear Palestinian compromise would actually be pre 1967 borders, but hey that will never happen.

        It certainly won't happen with the Hamas. Their official program is the full map in green and the destruction of Israel.

        Using capitals does not make your point more valid, only more grandiloquent and ridiculous.

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        • soloS Offline
          solo
          last edited by

          @bhoritz said:

          @solo said:

          A clear Palestinian compromise would actually be pre 1967 borders, but hey that will never happen.

          It certainly won't happen with the Hamas. Their official program is the full map in green and the destruction of Israel.

          And here we can agree, Hamas is the cancer, but how do we remove the cancer without killing the patient?

          http://www.solos-art.com

          If you see a toilet in your dreams do not use it.

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          • B Offline
            Bhoritz
            last edited by

            @solo said:

            And here we can agree, Hamas is the cancer, but how do we remove the cancer without killing the patient?

            I can certainly agree on that. And I have not the solution, if even one exists (which I greatly doubt).

            Using capitals does not make your point more valid, only more grandiloquent and ridiculous.

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            • charly2008C Offline
              charly2008
              last edited by

              Done

              He who makes no mistakes, makes nothing

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              • Mike LuceyM Offline
                Mike Lucey
                last edited by

                Israeli shell hits UN school in Gaza killing 15 people, including UN staff
                http://www.thejournal.ie/un-school-gaza-israel-strike-1588233-Jul2014/
                Palestinian Girl.jpg
                From UN reports, the Israelis forces had been advised about the UN school and even given geo locations! This obviously did not make any difference.

                Israel's actions are totally disproportionate and it looks that world opinion, excluding a certain sector in US, UK and EU government is turning a blind eye to what is happening ..... gradual genocide imo.

                I imagine Israel feels it can safely continue along this path as Hamas has burned its bridges with its neighbours in the area and the rest of the world doesn't care.

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                • Mike LuceyM Offline
                  Mike Lucey
                  last edited by

                  .... as regards the truce offer. Israel is not willing to allow free movement to from Palestine by land or sea. They want to retain the world's largest open prison.

                  I'd like to ask a question! What would be the situation with the Palestinian nation without Hamas?

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                  • StinkieS Offline
                    Stinkie
                    last edited by

                    @mike lucey said:

                    I'd like to ask a question! What would be the situation with the Palestinian nation without Hamas?

                    Well, they've been around since 1987, so ... pretty much like it was before '87: bad. Hamas is a mere symptom, albeit a nasty one. IMHO.

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                    • Mike LuceyM Offline
                      Mike Lucey
                      last edited by

                      @unknownuser said:

                      @mike lucey said:

                      I'd like to ask a question! What would be the situation with the Palestinian nation without Hamas?

                      Well, they've been around since 1987, so ... pretty much like it was before '87: bad. Hamas is a mere symptom, albeit a nasty one. IMHO.

                      The root to this mess goes back much further than 1987. I've located a maps diagram which covers the history of the situation here,

                      palestine-loss-of-land.jpg

                      To my surprise and the surprise of many Irish citizens our country abstained on a UN vote 'UN Human Rights Council States vote on resolution establishing independent Commission of Inquiry for OPT & Gaza' Only the US voted against.

                      UN Vote.jpg

                      There is an interesting debate among ordinary Irish folks on the matter here, http://www.thejournal.ie/ireland-eu-human-rights-council-1586964-Jul2014/

                      I keep thinking back to my point about the IRA, Northern Ireland, UK Government and Irish Government. If after 25 years of vicious situation that looked hopeless PEACE could be achieved thought talks, compromise on ALL sides, there should be hope for a settlement between the Israelis and the Palestinians. In the case of the Northern Ireland peace the US played a major part but I do not think they can be the honest arbitrator in this case.

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                      • A Offline
                        andyc
                        last edited by

                        Mike,

                        I agree that the Northern Ireland model has a lot to offer.

                        My concern is that a large part of the reason why the NI agreement worked was that there were people on both sides prepared to take a pragmatic approach to the issues. And in so doing they demonstrated that pragmatism needn't mean a total abandonment of long-held beliefs and values.
                        That is what is needed here - pragmatism / realism instead of idealism / fundamentalism. Sadly, listening to interviews from both sides in this conflict this morning, I'm hearing no (influential) pragmatic voices yet...

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                        • Mike LuceyM Offline
                          Mike Lucey
                          last edited by

                          @andyc said:

                          Mike,

                          I agree that the Northern Ireland model has a lot to offer.

                          My concern is that a large part of the reason why the NI agreement worked was that there were people on both sides prepared to take a pragmatic approach to the issues. And in so doing they demonstrated that pragmatism needn't mean a total abandonment of long-held beliefs and values.

                          That is what is needed here - pragmatism / realism instead of idealism / fundamentalism. Sadly, listening to interviews from both sides in this conflict this morning, I'm hearing no (influential) pragmatic voices yet...

                          I think the NI solution worked because there were some good arbitrators involved on all sides. The question is who is going to act as an honest arbitrator with no prejudice and trusted by all sides in this conflict ..... thats going to be difficult to find ........ someone of Nelson Mandela's calibre?

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                          • R Offline
                            rv1974
                            last edited by

                            What a pharisaism 🤢 ! Dudes have you noticed that during last 2 years 250000 Muslims were killed (by Muslims)in neighboring Syria along! that roughly x1000 times more than lost in Gaza lately.
                            Another funny fact: Palestinian rocket attacks began in 2001. Since then, nearly 4,800 rockets have hit southern Israel, just over 4,000 of them since Israel withdrew from the Gaza Strip in August 2005. The range of the rockets has increased over time.
                            Could you imagine 4000 rockets falling on Dublin or Dallas without adequate reaction?

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                            • A Offline
                              andyc
                              last edited by

                              I guess your definition of an adequate reaction differs from mine.

                              And to describe the preceding posts as pharisaism is, I feel, to misunderstand the humanitarian compassion that motivated them.

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                              • R Offline
                                rv1974
                                last edited by

                                http://www.scaryisrael.com/resources/isr-world.gif

                                some zoom out especially for Mike Lucey.

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                                • StinkieS Offline
                                  Stinkie
                                  last edited by

                                  @rv1974 said:

                                  Could you imagine 4000 rockets falling on Dublin or Dallas without adequate reaction?

                                  No. Yet: the root of the problem aren't Hamas's rockets.

                                  "There were no such thing as Palestinians. When was there an independent Palestinian people with a Palestinian state? It was either southern Syria before the First World War, and then it was a Palestine including Jordan. It was not as though there was a Palestinian people in Palestine considering itself as a Palestinian people and we came and threw them out and took their country away from them. They did not exist." -Golda Meir, 1969

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                                  • daleD Offline
                                    dale
                                    last edited by

                                    done

                                    Just monkeying around....like Monsanto

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                                    • Mike LuceyM Offline
                                      Mike Lucey
                                      last edited by

                                      @rv1974 said:

                                      http://www.scaryisrael.com/resources/isr-world.gif

                                      some zoom out especially for Mike Lucey.

                                      RV, not sure what you are getting at. Could you expand / clarify?

                                      It looks like things may be down scaling in light of Sen Kerry's and others efforts. Hopefully it will continue in this direction.

                                      There is alway hope!

                                      Jews and Arabs refuse to be enemies: Social media campaign goes viral (PHOTOS)
                                      BtLYqsLCAAApYDS.jpg
                                      http://rt.com/news/175792-jews-arabs-refuse-enemies/

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                                      • Mike AmosM Offline
                                        Mike Amos
                                        last edited by

                                        A tough topic that we know has routes of many kinds but probably majoring in the resettlement of European jews post ww2 which slewed the population mix. Hamas like other organisations have zero interest in a solution including a jewish state.

                                        As a mixed ancestry human being I prefer to locate my ancestry in the area to pre modern religion times my surname comes from a practise of naming people for the work they were doing in this case water carriers. Apparently the group were engaged in carrying water from rivers/lakes/wells to markets and homes of wealthier residents. A bit of history which is context based only.

                                        There was a contextual suggestion in one of the Tom Clancy books which piqued my interest in the use of independent paramilitary forces to reinforce a buffer zone but the suggestion is rather moot because the only people considered truly independent were the Swiss guards of the Vatican. That would suggest a third religious group could be considered a safe choice by the current antagonists which I cannot see working. Several of the studies on the dead sea scrolls and landscape of the pre and early Christian times suggests that the current location of what is sometimes called the holy land is wrong and that they should be looking at an area of the red sea, both sides get their followers although I reckon the gulf of aquaba would be just as objectionable to both sides of the conflict. Oil and water would appear to be the problem but even if land was granted to a new state, with homes and schools etc built by international donation, WHO would be the ones to move?

                                        Apart from the night following day of rockets and suicide bombers on buses etc and air force bombe followed by ground force incursion is there a lesson they are willing to learn? Sooner or late one side has to blink, followed by the other. Perhaps if Hamas could have free access to the outside world and finance to rebuild the nation, they might be willing to stop their terror attacks.

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                                        • StinkieS Offline
                                          Stinkie
                                          last edited by

                                          Just stumbled upon this.

                                          I cannot get the embedding to work. That's a word, right, embedding? Why must I be thick? Why?

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                                          • Mike LuceyM Offline
                                            Mike Lucey
                                            last edited by

                                            Jon Snow the C4 reporter is visibly upset by what he saw and experienced as should any right thinking person.

                                            I have taken some time to read all I can on the history that has lead to the current bad situation.

                                            I have come to the conclusion that only the USA can end this mess because it appears that President Truman without any due consideration for the Palestinian people set the playing field back in May 14th 1948, eleven minutes after the British gave up and the Zionists declared the Israeli state on lands that they had pushed Palestinians from and continue to do so with the ongoing massive military and financial support of the USA.


                                            Truman.jpg

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