U can TEACH me?
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Architex, while I appreciate the checkmark, that feature is to show that your question has been answered and that you believe it to be the best answer. Other people seeing the post from the list in the forum will think your question has been answered. just FYI.
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there is not a perfect arch. Is kind of elliptical. As it in vertical section and in plan section.
My most issue is there I need to have the columns in the same equal ellipse segment. So the first problem is, how I can have it just above the elliptical arch.
the second problem is, if I can get the exactly alignment of the columns (to support the inside dome), how can I project perpendicular edges to determine the frame structure (like I show in "2º Issue trouble... correct structure of inside elliptical" sample image upside the post)?
can you show me some examples of how I can build that frames??
I have to build it...
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after I read your answer 2 or 3 times, I think I get it.
The final arches are not equal as the side ones, right?
and the shape of the dome, should indicate the curvature of that final archs!
But, I think I get miss something.Try to think with me... If I draw edges true the elliptical dome shape, how it gone be the most upper edge that connect the arch edges? (I think I need to have some principal middle perpendicular edge, for I can join the left arches? (if you know what I try to explain)
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@unknownuser said:
after I read your answer 2 or 3 times, I think I get it.
The final arches are not equal as the side ones, right?
and the shape of the dome, should indicate the curvature of that final archs!
But, I think I get miss something.Try to think with me... If I draw edges true the elliptical dome shape, how it gone be the most upper edge that connect the arch edges? (I think I need to have some principal middle perpendicular edge, for I can join the left arches? (if you know what I try to explain)
I think that those buttresses along that closed end may end up being unique...
The shape you will find by using intersect tool.
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thank you all.
I will keep trying.
Later I will come back and post more results. Or, perhaps, the final result.
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it's basically just a matter of rotating around the proper axis..
i think (since i haven't actually navigated the .skp) you're trying for a domed/spherical shape which would require 3 different members (they're all identical except the point where the 'nose' is cut off).. this is the example on the left in the image below.. the different colors represent different identical pieces (the green one is only very slightly modified)..
if you want to use all identical modules throughout the entire piece, it will be more like the version on the right (that's no longer a true arch as there's a flat area in the middle.)
there's another variation in which all modules could be the same but it still forms a true spherical shape and requires a separate 'key' module but i'll leave this out for now as it would be more along the lines of how you might actually build the thing.. maybe a bit overkill though if you're just trying to do a visualization.
all that said, it would probably be easier to show you this on your actual model as opposed to what i've shown here.. here's my .skp though if you want to have a look.
good luck.
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Thanks Jeff Hammond.
it really help me to understand that closed nose.
But I am trying to have a continuous elliptical shape. without the circular form in the frames. Like you do in the left example, but without the circular in the pink frames... Is it possible?
Because, I am trying to do in my SKP file, and in fact I am really close to complete. But It feel strange when I look it... Perhaps I have to had that circular close nose, otherwise, it results in different frames on the back.
I will open your file and study better, for more comprehension.
And I have other issue. It is, everytime I need a better accuracy ellipse, and if I choose 400 edges, sketchup getting really slow. I have to draw it at maximum 200 edges, so I can intersect more fast. I wonder if there is some other technique to drawing ellipse dome with good accuracy?
Thanks four your concern
Best regards. -
YES... after I open your SKP file, I realise that you made it with a circular shape in TOP plan.
I need one but with an ELLIPSE form shape. Ellipse make the frames different.
Perhaps you could try if I post the dimensions of my dome, ok?
TOP PLAN - minor axis = 14.60 m (meters); big axis = 20.00 m (meters)
FRONT SECTION - vertical axis = 11.6 m (only need half = 5.80 m); horizontal axis = 14.60 mI will post the sample file plus the png image
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After I have to build the frames around that shape.
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it's confusing to show you because i'm still not 100% sure on what you're after.. using your ellipse dimensions, this is one possibility :
...but to me, that's wrong because the frames aren't always perpendicular to the curve.
i'll draw up another version in a little bit that i think is 'right'.. (but i won't be drawing it in sketchup.. it's basically impossible to accurately place items perpendicular to an ellipse in sketchup which is what is required here)@unknownuser said:
And I have other issue. It is, everytime I need a better accuracy ellipse, and if I choose 400 edges, sketchup getting really slow. I have to draw it at maximum 200 edges, so I can intersect more fast. I wonder if there is some other technique to drawing ellipse dome with good accuracy?
the thing is, no matter how many edges you make it, it's still not accurate.. when drawing complex curves in sketchup, it's best to make sure to place vertices where other objects will intersect with the curve.. those are the parts that need to be accurate and having hundreds of other vertices in between does nothing to help accuracy and only slows down the program.. (i had to redraw your ellipses here because using solid tools on the one you provided took about 5 minutes per intersection.. it would of taken me an hour to do the drawing had i not simplified the curves)
anyway-- i'll draw up a different version soon and we'll go from there
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the way i think it should be is more along these lines:
(drawn in rhino)
is that how you want it to look?
.
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Yes, I'm with Jeff... That's the unique end buttresses I was talking about.
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I think that it...
I am still working on it. Complete the frames with the vertical pedicles plus the triangular ones... Just like the steel frame on bridges. Or like the first images I post above.
The one that am working is getting close to the one that Jeff show to me, on last image example... I think that is the only method to drawing it with the ellipse shape that I need...
Loading work........
will come soon to show you how it gone be.
Thanks a lot to you all.
Keep worki
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@jeff hammond said:
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the way i think it should be is more along these lines:
(drawn in rhino)[attachment=0:xhhhn40c]<!-- ia0 -->ellipse_dome1_.jpg<!-- ia0 -->[/attachment:xhhhn40c]
[attachment=1:xhhhn40c]<!-- ia1 -->ellipse_dome2.jpg<!-- ia1 -->[/attachment:xhhhn40c]
is that how you want it to look?
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Can RHINO draw equal segments (specific measure and dimension of that segments) at the half of an ellipse?
And ask RHINO to draw its perpendicular intersection in the elliptical arch?
Like you did on to have that structure frames perpendicular in elipse?
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Here are the TEST! with its references.
I post the specific image with specific dimension (meters) and the SKETCHUP FILE...
U can teach me?
Thanks for you comprehension.
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@unknownuser said:
Can RHINO draw equal segments (specific measure and dimension of that segments) at the half of an ellipse?
And ask RHINO to draw its perpendicular intersection in the elliptical arch?
Like you did on to have that structure frames perpendicular in elipse?
yeah, rhino can equally divide an ellipse or partial ellipse (or any curve) into a desired amount of segments or divide it up into lengths the user defines.. (i.e.- if i want to split an ellipse into 1m segments, that's possible)..
then yeah, you can draw perpendicular lines to or from the curve at any given point.. or orient objects perpendicular to a curve etc.. actually, all sorts of things you can do in rhino in these regards-- too many to list here
idk, you can draw radius type stuff in sketchup which is accurate and doesn't require too many workarounds/gymnastics from the user.. once you go beyond radii though (such as this ellipse structure), sketchup isn't the right tool to be using (imo)
for instance, the end of this thing is sort of similar to the shape you're working with (except the ellipse is opposite-- snub nosed instead of pointy nosed) and there's no way i could of done it in sketchup.
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I think, after finish my thesis and complete the architecture student moment, I will find a course to learn RHino...
I really love sketchup. It fast to do some fast work. But I think when it come the day when we need to draw and intersect complex shapes, Sketchup loose a lot.
I have been looking to Rhino, but I haven't get much time to spend on it and learn with some tutorial beginners.
Perhaps, the Sketchup company could do A BETTER SKECTCHUP, and prepare it to do more accuracy forms.
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@unknownuser said:
Here are the TEST! with its references.
I post the specific image with specific dimension (meters) and the SKETCHUP FILE...
U can teach me?
Thanks for you comprehension.
here's a .skp which is an export from rhino using those dimensions with perpendicular lines drawn at the divide points..
it's a very fast process to draw this type of stuff in rhino but it took a few years for me to get to that point.. i really don't know how to explain a method to draw it in sketchup because most of the work will need to be done on a calculator and i don't know the formulas for drawing lines perp.to.ellipses..
@unknownuser said:
I think, after finish my thesis and complete the architecture student moment, I will find a course to learn RHino...
I really love sketchup. It fast to do some fast work. But I think when it come the day when we need to draw and intersect complex shapes, Sketchup loose a lot.
I have been looking to Rhino, but I haven't get much time to spend on it and learn with some tutorial beginners.
Perhaps, the Sketchup company could do A BETTER SKECTCHUP, and prepare it to do more accuracy forms.
i don't know.. i used to wish sketchup was 'better' when dealing with curves or that it had a lot more features etc.. i basically used to wish sketchup would turn into rhino
but now, after spending the time to learn rhino, i'm glad sketchup is sketchup and rhino is rhino.. the both offer things which the other doesn't have and i'm not sure if it would work out right if they were both smashed into a single application.. but yeah, start learning rhino (or some other nurbs type app) when you find the time.. it's good to know more than one drawing program (imo)
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Thank JEFF... you are the best.
But can I ask you, for you to draw the same, more 2 examples?
You made it with 4 spaces between, in which 4 + 4, total 8 spaces segments.
Can you draw the same with:
5 + 5 segment spaces? and other one with 6 + 6 segments?
I think that would help me to decide some dimension when I draw the up level floor, and manipulate de spaces between de structure frame (to draw holes in the dome)
Can you do that for me... And I think I found some material that help me determine the FOCUS point (FOCI) of the ellipse, and then draw perpendiculars to the arch in sketchup.
One more time...
You Rock dude.
Thanks a lot.
BIg hug men! 
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