Hello from Norway

keknor · 3 Mar 2014, 21:50

Thank you gaieus and BikerNorway for your welcome and thank you TECHDAVE02 for your suggestions to plugins and Sketchup files. Ill try those out soon. I have tried a plugin called Weld, there is a tutorial to it joining two tubes, but it does not give the proper geometry.

Hello again after a year.

On and off I have, after some struggle, managed to load Curviloft by Fredo. And now at last I have managed to come up with a model of the dome. See attachment. The upper red part is made by follow me tool and the lower grey part by Curviloft skinning. The form is good , but if you look closer (see detail) it has holes and imperfections along the outer edge. The model will be a part of a complete boiler in 1:160 scale. The file will be sent for 3D printing. Therefore the model must be perfect.

Any suggestions how to fix the holes?

Box · 3 Mar 2014, 22:42

I'd guess that you have run into the small faces problem. If your model is quite small in total then those faces are tiny.
Sketchup has trouble forming tiny faces, if things are too close together for it's tolerances it doesn't know what to do. The faces can exist, but it has problems creating them.

Easiest solution is to Scale the parts up by a factor of 10,100 or even 1000, perform the loft then scale it all back down again. If you are using a component you can always just scale a copy of the component to work on it and delete it when finished and the original will have been edited.
It is often easier to work the whole model at a larger scale, then scale down when finished for printing. Nothing to stop you modelling it full size then scaling it to whatever size you want.

tt_su · 4 Mar 2014, 10:09

@keknor said:

Hello again after a year.

Hei hei! Hilsen barteby!

keknor · 4 Mar 2014, 10:13

@box said:

I'd guess that you have run into the small faces problem. If your model is quite small in total then those faces are tiny.
Sketchup has trouble forming tiny faces, if things are too close together for it's tolerances it doesn't know what to do. The faces can exist, but it has problems creating them.

Easiest solution is to Scale the parts up by a factor of 10,100 or even 1000, perform the loft then scale it all back down again. If you are using a component you can always just scale a copy of the component to work on it and delete it when finished and the original will have been edited.
It is often easier to work the whole model at a larger scale, then scale down when finished for printing. Nothing to stop you modelling it full size then scaling it to whatever size you want.

Thank you BOX for your answer.
I found out about the small size problem when I tried to make small holes and also when trying to use follow me tool on small contoures. Therefore the part I posted have been enlarged 100 times already in Sketchup. The diametre of the red part is 333mm, scaled up from 3.3mm which is the size for my 3D model.

Will it help to scale up even more, or is it maybe other solutions?

Box · 4 Mar 2014, 11:43

Can you attached the part so we can look at it better.

keknor · 5 Mar 2014, 10:02

@box said:

Can you attached the part so we can look at it better.

I tried to attach it as SKP file but it is 10mb and the forum allow only 4mb. I tried to scale it down to 50% but it did not get smaller in mb.I tried to export as collada file, but the filetype is not allowed.

What do I do next?

TIG · 5 Mar 2014, 10:20

Make a copy.
Model Info > Statistics > Purge Unused
Then ZIP it.
It might then get smaller than 4Mb ?

gilles · 5 Mar 2014, 10:23

@keknor said:

@box said:

Can you attached the part so we can look at it better.

I tried to attach it as SKP file but it is 10mb and the forum allow only 4mb. I tried to scale it down to 50% but it did not get smaller in mb.I tried to export as collada file, but the filetype is not allowed.

What do I do next?

Scale will not affect file size, you can reduce the file size in a first time using purge in Window/Model info/statistics/purge. Then save and look in Model info/file to see your file size.

If it is not enough save a model with no texture.

Box · 5 Mar 2014, 10:24

I didn't mean for you to attach the whole train, just the problematic section.
I assume you are using groups or components to make the different parts. Just copy the dome into a new file and upload that.

If the dome part that you show in the screenshot is 10meg then there is some cleaning up to do.
One thing you may not be aware of is purging. Junk builds up in your model as you work with it and it needs to be removed from time to time. For example, If you download a model from the 3D warehouse to your model then delete it it is still there in the background in case you want it again, there are other bits and piece and often a purge can reduce file size dramatically.

The basic purge function can be found by going to Window/Model info/statistics and click the button at the bottom that says purge unused.

Edit; Just like trains, nothing for ages then three arrive together, or is that only buses.

keknor · 5 Mar 2014, 12:46

@box said:

I didn't mean for you to attach the whole train, just the problematic section.
I assume you are using groups or components to make the different parts. Just copy the dome into a new file and upload that.

If the dome part that you show in the screenshot is 10meg then there is some cleaning up to do.
One thing you may not be aware of is purging. Junk builds up in your model as you work with it and it needs to be removed from time to time. For example, If you download a model from the 3D warehouse to your model then delete it it is still there in the background in case you want it again, there are other bits and piece and often a purge can reduce file size dramatically.

The basic purge function can be found by going to Window/Model info/statistics and click the button at the bottom that says purge unused.

Edit; Just like trains, nothing for ages then three arrive together, or is that only buses.

Hello again
Thank you all for your answers. To "BOX", no I only send the dome part. It is a separat file. it will be imported to the main file which contain the whole model. I have now purged the dome file and zip ed it. And I have erased som figures I found om hidden layers. Strangely this did not reduce the size.

Hoe you find the zip ed file useful.

TYPE IV dom til kjel-test02 to sketchucation 030314.zip

Box · 5 Mar 2014, 12:50

That is only a .jpg not the .skp

keknor · 5 Mar 2014, 15:16

@box said:

That is only a .jpg not the .skp

Sorry, Stupid mistake.

here is the SKP file ZIPed to 3.9mb

TYPE IV dom til kjel-test02.zip

gilles · 5 Mar 2014, 16:30

It's all about small edges issue, under 1mm they may not create face so scale again before proceeding Curviloft.

PS: don't draw geometry on another layer than Layer0.
Layers are made for visibility put groups or components on them.

Box · 6 Mar 2014, 06:02

You need to rethink your modelling workflow. If the rest of your engine is built the same way your model will be so bloated as to be unworkable and unprintable.
You have used 360 segments in a circle that is meant to be 3.3mm that isn't going to work.
A default circle is 24 segments, 50 is pretty damn smooth, 100 is overkill, 360...........

Anyway, the segment count is creating your tiny face issue and the huge files size. You need to work out how you want to 3d print this and the tolerances involved with the specific printing method.
Work with fewer segments, work with all geometry on layer0 and move groups to layers for visibility not construction. Always keep layer0 as the active layer. When you look in the entity window of an unopen group it can say Layer63, but when you click into the group and look at the raw geometry it needs to say Layer0. That's all I have time to write just now.

keknor · 10 Mar 2014, 10:51

@box said:

You need to rethink your modelling workflow. If the rest of your engine is built the same way your model will be so bloated as to be unworkable and unprintable.
You have used 360 segments in a circle that is meant to be 3.3mm that isn't going to work.
A default circle is 24 segments, 50 is pretty damn smooth, 100 is overkill, 360...........

Anyway, the segment count is creating your tiny face issue and the huge files size. You need to work out how you want to 3d print this and the tolerances involved with the specific printing method.
Work with fewer segments, work with all geometry on layer0 and move groups to layers for visibility not construction. Always keep layer0 as the active layer. When you look in the entity window of an unopen group it can say Layer63, but when you click into the group and look at the raw geometry it needs to say Layer0. That's all I have time to write just now.

Thank you "Gilles" and "Box" for your advices. I will work on it and report here about my results.