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    Need Help!! How to model this kind of form/surface?

    Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Organic Modelling
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    • S Offline
      sephy
      last edited by

      @pbacot said:

      Sephy,

      I hope some real organic modellers can chime in, but I looked at the model and have a couple of suggestions, in the meantime.

      The building you have there is small. Try making it the actual size this building would be. It can make a difference to SU, in making all the faces in a curvy shape like this.

      I would begin by trying to delineate the main shapes in plan then making a 3d outline of the primary edges. Then I'd do the faces one at a time. The top of the roof, the sides, adjoining slopes etc. In the attached file I've modeled the upper roof top and two of the walls, separately, using Curviloft after defining their edges. You can see the edges in the file.

      Good luck. I'd like to see a tut on this too. This is like car modelling. You might find some tuts on cars, boats, and airplanes.
      [attachment=0:1ehnw2ro]<!-- ia0 -->lofted roof_1.png<!-- ia0 -->[/attachment:1ehnw2ro]

      Hi pbacot:

      Thanks for your suggestions, i think it's getting closer but still long way to go.
      when i look at your model and want to develop it but just don't know how to start, the complexity of the curves really drive me crazy. for example when u look at the curves, they somehow start from horizontal and then twist into vertical and finally merging with other lines...furthermore, the surfaces are not always smooth,it's like some curves are generated
      from the surfaces...etc....
      i reckon this form is generated by rhino with grasshopper, some kind of parametric modelling software,but what i am interested in is to explore the logic behind this kind of shape.

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      • S Offline
        sephy
        last edited by

        @leminilab said:

        @pbacot: you're right. I made my first loft very quickly and your approach is much better!

        Still I made this extrusion with extrude edges by vector from TIG's (Hail to you TIG! ☀ ) Extrude Tools set (http://forums.sketchucation.com/viewtopic.php?f=323&t=25362&hilit=extrusion+tools) and it gives a much better result than Joint Push Pull (Hail to you Fredo6! ☀ ).
        [attachment=0:3rudlorg]<!-- ia0 -->lofted-roof-extruded.jpg<!-- ia0 -->[/attachment:3rudlorg]

        But again, pbacot's approach is better because he took all the bendings into account.

        thanks leminilab,i guess to model this form in sketchup it's more difficult than i think? do u know any other software that can generate this kind of shape in a easier way, that would help as well.

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        • pbacotP Offline
          pbacot
          last edited by

          @unknownuser said:

          Thanks for your suggestions, i think it's getting closer but still long way to go.
          when i look at your model and want to develop it but just don't know how to start, the complexity of the curves really drive me crazy. for example when u look at the curves, they somehow start from horizontal and then twist into vertical and finally merging with other lines...furthermore, the surfaces are not always smooth,it's like some curves are generated
          from the surfaces...etc....
          i reckon this form is generated by rhino with grasshopper, some kind of parametric modelling software,but what i am interested in is to explore the logic behind this kind of shape.

          Sephy,

          I have no idea of the logic in the design. I think you need more than one picture for that.

          For my example I just quickly drew some curves (well quickly then slowly figured out other curves I needed), and concentrated on the view you have--as I have no idea what the rest of the building looks like. they definitely could have been nicer curves.

          You have to decide what your model does then draw that. If you think this derives from some basic form with some sort of computations, thus derived on a computer--that's way beyond me. SU is certainly not the place to start if you are intent on organic forms.
          SU wss designed with more boxy buildings in mind 😄
          If you just want to approximate the form you may use orthographic projection of the curves in space. Think what the plan would be, extrude that up. Then with tools on surface or other curves define the vertical, z path of the curve on this surface. The walls may not be vertical-- you are just extruding those to give you the horizontal layout.

          MacOSX MojaveSketchUp Pro v19 Twilight v2 Thea v3 PowerCADD

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          • S Offline
            sephy
            last edited by

            @pbacot said:

            @unknownuser said:

            Thanks for your suggestions, i think it's getting closer but still long way to go.
            when i look at your model and want to develop it but just don't know how to start, the complexity of the curves really drive me crazy. for example when u look at the curves, they somehow start from horizontal and then twist into vertical and finally merging with other lines...furthermore, the surfaces are not always smooth,it's like some curves are generated
            from the surfaces...etc....
            i reckon this form is generated by rhino with grasshopper, some kind of parametric modelling software,but what i am interested in is to explore the logic behind this kind of shape.

            Sephy,

            I have no idea of the logic in the design. I think you need more than one picture for that.

            For my example I just quickly drew some curves (well quickly then slowly figured out other curves I needed), and concentrated on the view you have--as I have no idea what the rest of the building looks like. they definitely could have been nicer curves.

            You have to decide what your model does then draw that. If you think this derives from some basic form with some sort of computations, thus derived on a computer--that's way beyond me. SU is certainly not the place to start if you are intent on organic forms.
            SU wss designed with more boxy buildings in mind 😄
            If you just want to approximate the form you may use orthographic projection of the curves in space. Think what the plan would be, extrude that up. Then with tools on surface or other curves define the vertical, z path of the curve on this surface. The walls may not be vertical-- you are just extruding those to give you the horizontal layout.

            Hi pbacot:

            Following is the links of this building, with more images:

            Link Preview Image
            Yinchuan Art Museum by WAA | Dezeen

            Layers of sediment left by the gradual shift of the Yellow River inspired the facade of this arts museum that will be built near Yinchuan, China. Designed by Chinese architects We Architech Anonymous (WAA), the Yinchuan Art Museum will be the first completed building of a new Yellow River Arts Centre on a wetland site that the 3,400 mile river

            favicon

            Dezeen (www.dezeen.com)

            i personally prefer sketchup if it can generate the similar knid of form as i have been using this software for long time, and that's why i want to find out the possibility, otherwise i will need to learn another software which is quite annoying.
            anyway, have a look at the pictures and tell me what u think.

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            • brookefoxB Offline
              brookefox
              last edited by

              I have not studied your link. I looked but the images were small and not very revealing. Consider this: the project was originally sculpted in stiff whipped cream and then photo digitized into a 3D model. From there it went into production, and in some cases, it went viral. Try to sculpt it yourself and proceed as they did.

              EDIT: No. I am wrong. It was modeled in pulled taffy, then chopped neatly.

              There is, however a wealth of filler available to augment the puffing up of the creamed taffy:

              @unknownuser said:

              The Museum’s massing becomes a diagram of these geological forces visible in the sedimentary creases abundant on the facade. Using parametric techniques we were able to visualise these layers and texturise the facade to implant an identity which echoes time through its weathering. Emulating these natural landform processes frees a language intrinsically linked with ‘Place’ while hinting of this ‘place’ as a time before human history. This Experiment with an abstracted ‘Growth’ of a building has taken the form of accentuating the landscape, creating distinct man made insertions to augment the existing topography and give the museum its identity.

              And therein may lie some important clues to guide us in the resolution of this conundrum.

              ~ Brooke

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              • S Offline
                sephy
                last edited by

                @brookefox said:

                I have not studied your link. I looked but the images were small and not very revealing. Consider this: the project was originally sculpted in stiff whipped cream and then photo digitized into a 3D model. From there it went into production, and in some cases, it went viral. Try to sculpt it yourself and proceed as they did.

                EDIT: No. I am wrong. It was modeled in pulled taffy, then chopped neatly.

                There is, however a wealth of filler available to augment the puffing up of the creamed taffy:

                @unknownuser said:

                The Museum’s massing becomes a diagram of these geological forces visible in the sedimentary creases abundant on the facade. Using parametric techniques we were able to visualise these layers and texturise the facade to implant an identity which echoes time through its weathering. Emulating these natural landform processes frees a language intrinsically linked with ‘Place’ while hinting of this ‘place’ as a time before human history. This Experiment with an abstracted ‘Growth’ of a building has taken the form of accentuating the landscape, creating distinct man made insertions to augment the existing topography and give the museum its identity.

                And therein may lie some important clues to guide us in the resolution of this conundrum.

                Hi brookefox:

                my idea is there might be two way to generate this form:

                the first way is more close to pbacot & leminilab's suggestion. draw some curves first, adjust their position and loft them. this method can generate a kind of simulated shape but will have less control and give you less opportunity to play around and generate another form.

                the second way is like what you said: to create a mass first, modify the mass by some commonds, like twisting,stretching? this way might have more control but don't know how to do it in detail.

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                • pilouP Offline
                  pilou
                  last edited by

                  As you can make intersections any architectural volumes not convoluted can be made easily 😉
                  Here only with the Projection By Didier Bur
                  (a curve along a vector)
                  Make normal crossing PushPull don't make the internal faces!
                  fluxus.jpg

                  Forget that 😄

                  Make the normal PushPull but with CTRL 😉
                  Select all / Intersection
                  Kill not wanted
                  And make Orient faces

                  fluxus1.jpg

                  But for inclined surfaces the first Projection method stay valuable 😉

                  fluxux2.jpg

                  Frenchy Pilou
                  Is beautiful that please without concept!
                  My Little site :)

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                  • pbacotP Offline
                    pbacot
                    last edited by

                    Pilou--
                    Although I usually don't understand you, perhaps you can break down steps to get the pillowy form in the last picture. Si vous plait,

                    Merci, Peter

                    Sephy-- that's far out. Can't really say much about it. Some of these architects, similar to BF comments, build models out of paper or whatever and an assistance digitizes with a 3d digitizing device. Then they use Catia or some advanced program to take it from there. Pulled taffy is a good guess, or it could follow dynamics foam rubber sheets squashed, folded and pinned. 😄

                    MacOSX MojaveSketchUp Pro v19 Twilight v2 Thea v3 PowerCADD

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                    • brookefoxB Offline
                      brookefox
                      last edited by

                      @unknownuser said:

                      Although I usually don't understand you

                      I hope he doesn't take that as some kind of crazzy personal challenge. 💚 His pictures usually do tell a good story.

                      In retrospect it occurred to me that (as referenced in the marketing blurb), eroded sandstone and the like can look quite like pulled taffy, though it is not so bad for your teeth.

                      ~ Brooke

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                      • pbacotP Offline
                        pbacot
                        last edited by

                        I exaggerate. 😛

                        MacOSX MojaveSketchUp Pro v19 Twilight v2 Thea v3 PowerCADD

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                        • pilouP Offline
                          pilou
                          last edited by

                          @unknownuser said:

                          break down steps

                          I am not sure to understand this 😳

                          Something like this ?

                          Pillouw.jpg

                          Frenchy Pilou
                          Is beautiful that please without concept!
                          My Little site :)

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                          • pbacotP Offline
                            pbacot
                            last edited by

                            Pilou,

                            I mean, the steps to get to the shape you showed. 😄 I get the projection for the curve but what did you use for the dome-like portion, Merci, le Bacot

                            :
                            @unknownuser said:

                            fluxux2.jpg

                            MacOSX MojaveSketchUp Pro v19 Twilight v2 Thea v3 PowerCADD

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                            • pbacotP Offline
                              pbacot
                              last edited by

                              🎉 So you have been to my favorite place?
                              http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6d/Canyonlands_Needles.jpg/600px-Canyonlands_Needles.jpg

                              MacOSX MojaveSketchUp Pro v19 Twilight v2 Thea v3 PowerCADD

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                              • pbacotP Offline
                                pbacot
                                last edited by

                                Thank you, I think I got it! That plugin does interesting things! Peter

                                MacOSX MojaveSketchUp Pro v19 Twilight v2 Thea v3 PowerCADD

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                                • pilouP Offline
                                  pilou
                                  last edited by

                                  Ah Ok 😄
                                  In the previous I have just drawn an arc circle (second curve = rail) for the "Dome" and make like this 😉

                                  You need just 2 curves! (second is not obliged, it's just an "helper line" as you can click anywhere! 🤓
                                  Just At the beginginning you must Select the first curve (after it's memorized! )
                                  You can stop at any moment! And reselect the curve if you have missed one point 😉
                                  But careful if you miss one first green point that's failed so stop sometimes for the stress! 💚

                                  Else it's very powerful when you have rail (second curve) not convoluted!
                                  It's just few clicks for big effects! 😎

                                  And for something else it's very useful for closed sections on the fly!
                                  A very funy plugins! 👍
                                  Here the first and second curve(rail) are the same so at the end I will have a square "russian mountain" 😉

                                  For the next "segment" firt click will be the previous "last click" green point!
                                  Bur_Projection.jpg

                                  Of course you have other plugs (Extrude edged by edges by Tig), or even the follow me (you must draw a surface more)that make the same in one click
                                  but here you have total control if you want jump a raw and more possibility to click anywhere!

                                  For reselect a curve don't hesitate to use the view top !

                                  Frenchy Pilou
                                  Is beautiful that please without concept!
                                  My Little site :)

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                                  • pilouP Offline
                                    pilou
                                    last edited by

                                    ...and big advantage you can extrude any segment in the same time even separated!
                                    and very useful when you want just a rectangle in the 3D space with a curious orientation! 😉
                                    Or for a direct triming!
                                    Etc...
                                    A must to have 😄

                                    Frenchy Pilou
                                    Is beautiful that please without concept!
                                    My Little site :)

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                                    • brookefoxB Offline
                                      brookefox
                                      last edited by

                                      @pbacot said:

                                      So you have been to my favorite place?

                                      How about a hint?

                                      The erosion is a little further along than the building in question, whose surface is smooth and sleek, more like the flash-flood-water eroded canyons, or Elvis' hair. Maybe yours is like the building in 4 or 5 years.

                                      I know this is a modelling discussion and not a 'why bother?' discussion, but that is at the core of my every response...

                                      Look at this: all the taffy is decoration and deceit; so many useless calories....

                                      hollow spaces holding much hot air.


                                      taffy1.JPG

                                      ~ Brooke

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                                      • pbacotP Offline
                                        pbacot
                                        last edited by

                                        Postby brookefox on Tue Jul 03, 2012 9:28 pm

                                        pbacot wrote:So you have been to my favorite place?
                                        

                                        How about a hint?

                                        [off:27j01tnm][/off:27j01tnm]Probably the biggest showcase of erosion in the world (well it's all erosion I guess), the Colorado Plateau, with myriad geological layers spanning from Bryce Canyon down to the bottom of the Grand Canyon, but here (more specifically) the Needles District of Canyonlands NP in Utah, with the Permian Cedar Mesa Sandstone. This from our last trip. You go for a hike and this is what it is like in all directions.IMG_0168.png
                                        Pilou has already won the "model this" competition.

                                        Sorry this is so OT but at least we're bumping the thread.

                                        MacOSX MojaveSketchUp Pro v19 Twilight v2 Thea v3 PowerCADD

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                                        • pilouP Offline
                                          pilou
                                          last edited by

                                          Curvy Loft, FFD, Follow me
                                          seems sufficient

                                          waves.jpg

                                          Frenchy Pilou
                                          Is beautiful that please without concept!
                                          My Little site :)

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