Imported groups shift position?
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Hi all,
I'm relatively new to Sketchucation - I've been browsing the forum for a while now, but this is my first topic.
I did a search for this issue but didn't come up with anything. My problem concerns imported groups shifting position upon reload. Basically I am working on a large building that sits in a even larger site file. For ease of use (the combined file is too large to work easily in) and to allow multiple people to work at once, we have broken up the building into 3 separate files, which we then import into the site file. I often have the problem upon reload that the group is upside down, thousands of feet away, and/or rotated. Isn't there someway to establish a universal origin so these groups don't move? Any help is greatly appreciated.
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Hi, sounds like you should be using 'Paste in Place' (ctrl V).
Start with the base file as you want it. Select and copy elements. In a new file, 'paste in place'. Do not move the geometry in the new or old files. When you wish to assemble all back to the base file, copy and 'paste in place' again.
Another method is to make portions of the model 'Components'. Work on a component in another file, then back in base file, right click on outdated component and 'Reload', navigate to updated component and select. Voila!
Baz. -
Reloading (components, not groups) should work without issues. Use components as when "saving as..." or "reloading" them, their origin is very important and you can control where components origins are and how they are aligned while you cannot do that with groups.
Your problem seems to be clearly this (although we should look at the file to tell exactly)
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Check that the axes of all of the SKPs in question are all 'reset' to be the world axes.
The 'site_plan' SKP contains a 'block' that is a component [not a group!].
A component is in affect a SKP within a SKP.
The internal 'origin' of that 'block' is its insertion point.
If you edit that block and move it's contents the block appears to shift within the site_plan... BUT if you have Model Info > Components > show origin checked you'll see that it's insertion point has remained unchanged and actually the geometry within it has moved relative to the component's internal 'origin'.
If you save the block as an external block.SKP and then open that and start to edit that then anything you move relative to that SKP's origin will affect the block-component's instance inside the site_plan.SKP, WHEN you 'reload' it.
So if it appears that the block-component's instance in the site_plan.SKP has 'jumped' after you have done a 'reload', then I'd bet cash that its insertion-point has remained the unchanged, but somehow, someone, has moved geometry within the block.SKP itself relative to that file's origin, and inevitably this change is reflected when reloaded.
If you fix up the block component inside the site_plan and then re-save_as and immediately reload there should never be a perceptible change. However, if you subsequently start moving objects within the block.SKP, save and reload in the site_plan.SKP it will once again mess up.
So understand what you are dong in one file affects the other, just as it would if you were editing a component in place inside a SKP and moving objects within it... -
@baz said:
Hi, sounds like you should be using 'Paste in Place' (ctrl V).
Another method is to make portions of the model 'Components'. Work on a component in another file, then back in base file, right click on outdated component and 'Reload', navigate to updated component and select. Voila!
Baz.This is essentially what we have been doing. "Paste in Place" will not work because the "place" is not the same relative to world origin. If I paste in place my component shows up way off from where it should be. Therefore I have to move and/or rotate it as necessary to get in place. My problem is that once I've inserted a file as a component (or pasted in place) and positioned it correctly, it should not move upon reload, no matter what changes I make in its base file. However, it occasionally does for no obvious reason to me.
@tig said:
Check that the axes of all of the SKPs in question are all 'reset' to be the world axes.
The problem with resetting the axes is that my working axes (orthogonal to the building) are quite different than world axes (our building is rotated from true north). If I reset axes to world, then it makes it extremely difficult to work in the file.
@tig said:
If you edit that block and move it's contents the block appears to shift within the site_plan...
We do not edit the components once they are imported into the site file - if they need changing we only change them in the base models.
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If you are using separate components for each building and these are not all orthogonal to the site-plan SKPs axes that's NOT really an issue. Because when you first make the building component [OR even changing the axes later] inside the model then you can set its axes to be orthogonal to some logical side arrangements within the component and not the base-model axes. When you edit that component 'in place' OR you export it to an external SKP then it's main sides will be orthogonal to its own axes and you don't need to mess on with changing things later ...
Without seeing the exact steps you are doing to get into this mess it's hard to see where the issue lies...
If you set logical axes for each of the the components when they are within the site-plan and don't move geometry within the component-SKPs 'externally' before you 'reload' [using the original axes etc], then I can't immediately see where your problems are coming from...PS: the site plan IS located reasonably near to the real origin, isn't it ?
You don't need to locate geometry in the 'real world' - unlike ACAD !
Having geometry zillions of miles away from the origin can cause issues... -
Ok, I reset the axes in my base file, then made all my objects in that file into a component (so I can have different working axes inside it). I discovered that I CAN paste in place correctly (I thought they were not set up that way, but I was mistaken). However, when I change the base file and want to reload, it comes in completely different. How can I establish a good work flow for this?
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@tig said:
PS: the site plan IS located reasonably near to the real origin, isn't it ?
You don't need to locate geometry in the 'real world' - unlike ACAD !
Having geometry zillions of miles away from the origin can cause issues...Yes, all objects are relatively close to the real origin.
Here is the current status:
-I have a large site model, in which a building composed of three parts sits.
-Each part is a component, created by pasting in place a separate .skp file that has the same real origin.
-All editing of the building is done in the separate.skps.
-When I want to get my building updates into the site file, I Context click on the component and "Reload"
-Updated component comes in thousands of feet away, rotated, and at a different elevation.
This appears to be because upon paste-in-place a new origin is established for that component. Then upon reload it matches the component's real origin with that new origin, instead of the site file's real origin, thus locating it far off.
So far I have discovered a better method. Instead of pasting in place, I go to File>Import and select my .skp file. Then I snap it to the real origin (which match in the two files), and it loads in the correct place. Even after I make changes in the building file and "Reload", it still appears in the same place. Success!
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So 'never-paste-in-place' if you might want to reload SKPs later IS the lesson hard learnt...
I had erroneously assumed that you were using import [or modeling a component in the site-plan with a 'svae_as'], so that the origin stayed true between the files...
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