Have you had a model stolen?

gilles

Ok, so should the architect get credited for his building you created in 3D form on a PC?

Yes. It is his masterpiece, he could hire you for modeling or built it, but it will always be his idea.

iichiversii

@unknownuser said:

Ok, so should the architect get credited for his building you created in 3D form on a PC?

Yes. It is his masterpiece, he could hire you for modeling or built it, but it will always be his idea.

I totally agree

Alan Fraser

It is a grey area, yes...but you can't really state that a model has been stolen on the basis of thumbnail pictures. You'd need to have both meshes and do a vertex by vertex comparison. I've actually been accused of stealing stuff from the Warehouse, based on nothing other than a small preview pic, but it was a totally unfounded BS claim...precisely because of what I've just said.
As somebody already stated; if two people model the same object from the same stats (and they are any good at modelling) then the models are going to look superficially identical. In fact, my versions were more accurate and contained about 10% of the faces in the Warehouse versions....many of which are just high poly Max models imported into SU, complete with reversed faces and micro missing faces galore.

As for 'borrowing' somebody's model and substantially editing it so it doesn't look the same...can you claim it as your own? No, you can't. If there is any of the orginal mesh in there, then it's not your model. Your model starts with a blank drawing window.

I've also had loads of models pirated and posted onto warez sites, but we're pretty hot on that kind of thing and Rapidshare and others are very efficient at removing them quickly.

I can't imagine why anyone would buy something from Turbosquid without checking out the Warehouse first. I'll bet a heck of a lot more stuff heads in the other direction (TS to 3DW) than the other way round.
So if you have genuinely had a Warehouse model stolen and posted to TS, I wouldn't lose any sleep over it.

JMJOhio

3d modeling is one of my hobbies and I enjoy sharing my creations with others. Some will download them to study and learn from and others may use them as components in their projects. Some will edit the original to suit their tastes and possibly morph it into something very different. And there are the talented rendering and post p folk who surf for models to be used to create fantastic images. I endorse all of this utilization. I do expect to be credited for my original efforts.

But...for someone to take outright credit for my work when there has been no value added by them, or worse yet, openly offer same for sale is totally unacceptable to me.

I'm willing to compromise a bit, but will not wholesale give up my freedoms in trade for better security, (encrypted software, password protection, etc...). I will probably be more discrete in the future and offer my major works by invitation only.

Here is the final reply from TurboSquid relative to the incident that prompted the start of this thread.

Recently a friend of mine submitted a request, see #87588 & #91544, regarding a model of mine that was downloaded from google 3d warehouse and offered for sale on your site by jessel sullivan. I go by the name JMJ-Ohio in the 3d warehouse. I do not know a jessel sullivan and gave no one authority to sell this model. Model in question is "Ford 427 V8 SOHC". Would you supply me details relative to the resolution of this issue.

Thank you,
Jim Jeffries

Hello,

I handled the case. We found that the model offered on the Google 3D Warehouse and the one on TurboSquid were the same. We took the model down and contacted the artist who posted it. The artist did not respond to our message and has been banned from TurboSquid.

Sincerely,
Kevin
TurboSquid Member Services
Basic | Advanced | Product | Licensing & Usage | Copyright & Trademark Infringement

Jan-09 2012 13:09

irwanwr

hi Jim,

i'm glad to read your post and see the replies from Turbo Squid.
hopefully that "slime" learnt a lesson from this.

hellnbak

Just received email with the following message concerning the '67 GTO I have on the Warehouse -

Hey man Just letting ya know some dudes trying to upload this model in Second Life and trying to sell it
Tried to check it out but have no idea what "Second Life" is, couldn't find anything.

Must admit that I am surprised at low number of responses in this thread, surely there are more people out there that have had their model ripped off. Sharing our experiences might help to come up with some sort of solution to this problem. As JMJOhio's experience shows, positive results can be achieved.

Alan Fraser

Second Life is a virtual world, where 'residents' interact via animated avatars. Rather like a 3D game but without the explosions. It was created by Linden Labs.

It's an entire community which has different areas and islands on which you can build virtual residences, shops, nightclubs or other businesses. These are built on virtual plots which can be bought with Linden Dollars. Some of these business include designing a house, creating furniture for it, or producing clothing fashions, hairstyles and other commodities. There is a system for converting real money into Linden $$$ and back again. You have to pay Linden Labs to open such a franchise I believe; and some people now actually make their entire income this way...trading virtually.

I'd have thought all the free models in the 3DW are an obvious target, not only for ordinary 2nd Life users looking for a new sofa, car or luxury yacht (fair enough), but also for unscrupulous types looking to spruce them up and convert them to the necessary format then sell them in the online marketplace linked above.

brokenkeys

Reminds me of a post on pushpullbar; http://www.pushpullbar.com/forums/showthread.php?13868-Stolen-project

To summerize; someone applied for a job with a cv which included a project he stole from the firm he was applying to! [can't find an emoticon which expresses what I feel when I read about it]

iichiversii

@jmjohio said:

Recently a friend of mine submitted a request, see #87588 & #91544, regarding a model of mine that was downloaded from google 3d warehouse and offered for sale on your site by jessel sullivan. I go by the name JMJ-Ohio in the 3d warehouse. I do not know a jessel sullivan and gave no one authority to sell this model. Model in question is "Ford 427 V8 SOHC". Would you supply me details relative to the resolution of this issue.

Thank you,
Jim Jeffries

Hello,

I handled the case. We found that the model offered on the Google 3D Warehouse and the one on TurboSquid were the same. We took the model down and contacted the artist who posted it. The artist did not respond to our message and has been banned from TurboSquid.

Sincerely,
Kevin
TurboSquid Member Services
Basic | Advanced | Product | Licensing & Usage | Copyright & Trademark Infringement

Jan-09 2012 13:09

But you would wonder was this model sold at any stage and if so how many times was it sold, i believe this goes on alot and i dont post my models on the warehouse for this sole reason, until there is a solution to this on going problem ill never post models on the warehouse, it also makes me wonder how many models from the google warehouse have being stolen and sold on turbosquid, or is stolen the right word to use since we upload our models for others to freely use, i was unaware su models could be imported into second life also, if we were to look trough the second life store what would we find there, for example if i owned a furniture shop in second life i could simply download every bit of furniture from the google warehouse and sell it for a price in second life, would i?? No, its wrong but there are people who would, second life is so big, i once read that a virtual house was sold in around $160,000 give or take, this is a booming virtual world and like in the real world there is crime, but is it a crime, for example in the real world if i want to get rid of a sofa i cold simply leave it outside and within a day or 2 some1 will take it, what they do with it is there problem not mine, if i upload a model in the warehouse its practically the same, what they do with the model isnt my problem, we can argue this forever and simply end back where we started, i agree i wouldnt like someone selling a model of mine on turbosquid or second life without my permision but if i load a model onto the warehouse its bound to happen, if there was a way you could copyright your models in su where a code is added to a model and this code could be viewed by turbosquid or secondlife administrators i think this would be the only way this problem could be solved, so what are your views on a way to copyright your models in su?? just an idea

oganocali

Legally speaking, according 3D warehouse terms of Service 11.1.b. and 11.1.c. downloader of your uploaded model automatically obtains a license to sell modify redistribute etc (except google proprietary content like satellite images, terrrain, photo textures etc.). There is nothing wrong about someone selling your 3D warehouse models in TurboSquid. I think Turbosquid may have overreached by banning that user.

Ethically it is a different matter...

Cheers

Ogan

iichiversii

There you go, now who wants to upload models to sketchup warehouse now??? looks like the slime who were doing this infact didnt do anything wrong, like i said i dont agree with it but theres nothing we can do about it, so who wants to go halfs on running a furniture shop on second life

hellnbak

@oganocali said:

Legally speaking, according 3D warehouse terms of Service 11.1.b. and 11.1.c. downloader of your uploaded model automatically obtains a license to sell modify redistribute etc (except google proprietary content like satellite images, terrrain, photo textures etc.). There is nothing wrong about someone selling your 3D warehouse models in TurboSquid. I think Turbosquid may have overreached by banning that user.

Ethically it is a different matter...

Cheers

Ogan

Here's a copy of the Google Terms Of Service sections mentioned above, and I do not see anything about someone having the right to sell a model downloaded from the Warehouse.

It does state that "You retain copyright and any other rights you already hold in Content which you submit, post or display on or through, the Services"

Admittedly I am not fluent in legalese, but that's the way I read it.

11. Content license from you
11.1

(a) You retain copyright and any other rights you already hold in Content which you submit, post or display on or through, the Services.

(b) By submitting, posting or displaying the content you give Google a perpetual, sublicensable, irrevocable, worldwide, royalty-free, and non-exclusive license to reproduce, adapt, modify, translate, publish, publicly perform, publicly display and distribute any Content or derivative works thereof which you submit, post or display on or through, the Services.

This license is for the sole purpose of enabling Google to display, distribute and promote the Services and may be revoked for certain Services as defined in the Additional Terms of those Services.

(c) By publicly posting or displaying the content you give other end users of the Services a perpetual, sublicensable, irrevocable, worldwide, royalty-free, and non-exclusive license to reproduce, adapt, modify, translate, publish, publicly perform, publicly display and distribute (subject to the restrictions set forth in Sections 11.4 and 20.3 of these Terms) any Content or derivative works thereof which you publicly post or display on or through the Services.

11.2 You agree that this license includes a right for Google to make such Content available to other companies, organizations or individuals with whom Google has relationships for the provision of syndicated services, and to use such Content in connection with the provision of those services.

11.3 You retain the right to: (a) make content that you upload to 3D Warehouse using Google SketchUp or third party services available under different license terms, and (b) stop distributing such Content through 3D Warehouse at any time; provided, however that any such election will not serve to withdraw the license granted under these Terms. In order to stop distributing such Content through 3D Warehouse, you must terminate these Terms as set forth in Section 13, or utilize the content removal function provided within the service, in which case the content removal will be effective within two (2) days.

11.4 Notwithstanding anything to the contrary, without Google’s prior authorization, you may not: (i) aggregate Content obtained from Google Services for redistribution, or (ii) use or distribute Content obtained from Google Services in a mapping or geographic application or service.

11.5 You understand that Google, in performing the required technical steps to provide the Services to our users, may (a) transmit or distribute your Content over various public networks and in various media; and (b) make such changes to your Content as are necessary to conform and adapt that Content to the technical requirements of connecting networks, devices, services or media. You agree that this license shall permit Google to take these actions.

11.6 You confirm and warrant to Google that you have all the rights, power and authority necessary to grant the above license.

iichiversii

Yeah oganocali, where did you get this selling shite from??? You fooled me

oganocali

@unknownuser said:

(c) By publicly posting or displaying the content you give other end users of the Services a perpetual, sublicensable, irrevocable, worldwide, royalty-free, and non-exclusive license to reproduce, adapt, modify, translate, publish, publicly perform, publicly display and distribute (subject to the restrictions set forth in Sections 11.4 and 20.3 of these Terms) any Content or derivative works thereof which you publicly post or display on or through the Services.

Basically I read c) as you can do anything you want with it.

Not that I condone it...

Ogan

andybot

good point hellnbak - absolutely nothing in there about selling or redistributing.

actually - 11.4 specifically says NO redistribution without Google's permission

edit: hmm... by "aggregate" (in 11.4i) I guess they mean not run a service similar to theirs (which might be how having models on TurboSquid might be pretty clearly illegal.) Also, I looked for "redistribute", but they do say "distribute", which I guess is the same. so my question is - does distribute allow selling for money or not?

JMJOhio

I think the following is the key. Then when you upload a file, identify it as contents copyrighted.

(a) You retain copyright and any other rights you already hold in Content which you submit, post or display on or through, the Services.

Copyrighting electronic media is a fairly straightforward process that can be accomplished in one sitting after the media have been completed. Technically speaking, once the media are finalized, a copyright is created, however, the copyright can only be enforced in a court of law if it has been registered with the U.S. Copyright Office.

Instructions

Things You'll Need
Computer with Internet connection
Valid email address
Valid credit card
Electronic media in a common format
Copyrighting Electronic Media Online

1
Navigate to the electronic Copyright Office (eCO) section of the Copyright Office's website.

2
Sign in with your account, or create a new account. This step requires a valid email address.
3
Complete Fill-in Form CO.
4
Submit the copyright registration fee. This step requires a valid credit card.
5
Upload the electronic media in a common format, such as dot-pdf for documents, dot-avi for videos, or dot-zip for a collection of various files.

Read more: How do I Copyright Electronic Media? | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/how_6865493_do-copyright-electronic-media_.html#ixzz1jCBz0sPU

hellnbak

Good post Jim. The referenced site makes no mention of how much the fee is. Any idea? If it were only a few bucks I might consider it, but, unfortunately, I suspect that even if the fee were nominal, very few modelers would go to the trouble. And I mean very few. Like almost none

But, few modelers have invested the time and trouble of creating something like your '32, so in your case it would be worth it, IMHO. Are you considering it, just out of curiosity.

JMJOhio

Fee for an electronic filing is $35. The problem is with the legal fees you would encounter if taking legal action against someone.

Sooo...Steve, how many copies of my 32 have you sold. I think it's worth $1500 a pop. My lawyer will be in touch with your lawyer.

hellnbak

@jmjohio said:

Sooo...Steve, how many copies of my 32 have you sold. I think it's worth $1500 a pop. My lawyer will be in touch with your lawyer.

You can't prove anything

alpmeadow

An interesting dilemma concerning creating a SU model of the Bridge below, came from my SU model image posting celebrating the ten year anniversary event on the TFG forum at http://forums.tfguild.net/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showthreaded&Number=27429#Post27429
The next posted reply was not expected.
"Hi Irv,

I wonder if what you have posted above is a breach of copyright ?

We all of us here know the original designer of this bridge.

I am sure that no offence is intended (either way) and hence I simply raise this as a topic for thought, comment and discussion.

Regards"

I have carved this wood model for myself and is not for sale(design by Reid Costley and Ed Levin) .

The question is how far do you need to go, when modelling public structures that already exist?
Cheers