Occupy Wall street
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@tfdesign said:
Further proof that no one really knows what they are marching for!
to an extent, yes.. no one really knows exactly..
we (at least americans?) generally have no idea how our monetary system actually works.. there's no way in hell the bankers are going to teach us their system or rules of the game in schools.. they won't make that information easily available either..
if we really knew what was going on then their game would be over. immediately.. even someone like my mom wouldn't stand for the b.s. but as is, she's probably a bit scared by these protests.. she's probably thinking the protesters are terrorists or something because she's so uneducated about the u.s. financial institutions.but, she does know that it costs her $5 to take money out of a bank.. her own money!
she does know that she's struggling to keep her house and keep her husband alive (heart issues)
she works 50+ hours per week in a factory.. she's busting her ass.. and she's having a hard/stressful time just to keep a shelter over her head..
this same scenario is happening a few million times over in the u.s. and in many cases, much worse..we are taught to work hard and we'll have a comfy life.. the american dream..
well, the american dream is a hoax and the country is finally waking up to it..
people are getting too greedy.. they are taking too much.. and they are going to fall because of it. -
I don't know. I don't think "greedy" is the right word. More like 'ignorant' perhaps?
In Britain the south has become so affluent, that most people living down there seem to have lost control of their senses. It seems people forget once they become comfortable.
Both our current leaders (hung parliament, because so few came out to vote), are both ex-Etonians. They have practically no grasp on reality at all. You're more likely to get into one of the top 5 universities (Oxbridge etc) if you went to public school (Eton is a well known British public school that only sons of bankers are most likely to afford) and paid the £5000 per term entry fees, rather than going to a state comprehensive government funded school school.
Did you also know the majority of 11 year olds who went to state schools over the last 20 years don't even know what an architect does, whereas ask someone from a public school, and you will get a different answer? As a matter of fact, if you are a well known RIBA architect, it's more than likely that your children will also go to public school.
Same probably goes for the monetary system, as we no longer live in a meritocracy. But when our leaders are also both ex-public school, this is hardly surprising.
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@unknownuser said:
maybe.. but.. what happens if the bankers are the govt?
the banks/corporations have infiltrated our government.Aye. And vice versa: quite a few of our politicians and former politicians have cushy jobs on the boards of banks, insurance companies, and whatnot.
@unknownuser said:
maybe start off with dick Cheney.
If it were up to me, Cheney would rot in jail. I'm willing to accept George W. felt he was on a moral mission of sorts, but Cheney surely had no other objective than money and power. As far as I'm concerned, the man's just as big an evil tw*t as Bin Laden was.
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@unknownuser said:
If it were up to me, Cheney would rot in jail.
Why bother? What would it achieve? He'd only be replaced by another twit.
@unknownuser said:
Perhaps a revolution can overthrow autocratic despotism and profiteering or power-grabbing oppression, but it can never truly reform a manner of thinking; instead, new prejudices, just like the old ones they replace, will serve as a leash for the great unthinking mass.
Immanuel Kant; An Answer to the Question: What is Enlightenment? 1784 (Excerpt)
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just in case you have not watched it yet
perplexed police
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=N9HvJhilJzo#! -
Under the circumstances what could the police do? I think they behaved very amicably this time considering the circumstances. The police otoh were wrong to arrest all those on the bridge the other day. If they'd arrested this guy, it would have probably sparked a riot! Personally I thought he should have saved his anger and become the next Malcolm X!
America needs new leaders! This guy's got more passion than Obama! That can only be a good thing!
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@tfdesign said:
@unknownuser said:
If it were up to me, Cheney would rot in jail.
Why bother? What would it achieve? He'd only be replaced by another twit.
I didn't mean it literally, but as a shorthand.
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I know what you meant.
On a lighter, more creamy note...
Ben & Jerry's have now got in on the act! Just how cynical is this?
"Suck up your favourite ('organic'?) ice cream with a clear conscience!"
Rock on bez & jez
They play the environmental card- obviously good PR on their behalf, but one of the main reasons we are paying crazy taxes as well as increased fuel bills is because environmentalists have chosen to play on peoples fear about climate change. So we are now heading for targets we can't achieve, and as a result we must pay more taxes! Consumables cost money. They need massive investment, because energy companies need to pay their shareholders. The profits they make are astronomical. And another big freeze is forecasted in Europe again this year.
This is part of the reason I played the Greenpeace and WWF card before. They're all part of the 'greater picture'!
It is highly likely that this will evoke emotions- but emotions are the reason these games that are played by governments and aforementioned organisations become so personal to the general public- especially the middle classes. -
@unknownuser said:
because environmentalists have chosen to play on peoples fear about climate change
And republicans play on our fear of everything else in order to get huge military contracts to big campaign contributors and stripping us of rights with their Patriot act.
Just out of curiosity, do you believe in global climate change?
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Fear does seem to be a great motivator on all sides. We all use it, for big and small.
I prefer apathy. Apathy motivates to me to do as little as I'd like to. Now again, please vote for me for president.
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Things would be so much better if the OWS crowd was in charge. Oh wait, what is this article I see?
Surprise: OWS protesters don’t like their own wealth redistributed
On second thought, I guess human nature extends even to the OWS crowd...
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@david. said:
On second thought, I guess human nature extends even to the OWS crowd...
this happened in Puerta del Sol , in Madrid. It was the main reason for deciding to get out and desmantle the camping. It lasted over two months which is quite a lot. It is a hard issue to solve. And a very easy way to discredit the movement.
Maybe the way is to get out, do not camp, and return every morning day by day.In any case, I am afraid things are going to get unpredictable as far as euro collapse and thus dollar is closer and closer .
Hi you, Dave H - Supermouse, come a bit down to earth, things are not like you see up there ¡
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I heard an interview yesterday with one of the "spokespersons" of the OWS thing. . .the interviewer kept asking him "What are your goals? What is it you want to achieve? Specifically." The so-called spokesperson could not articulate in any meaningful way what it is they are trying to achieve.
The gist of the interview went like this. . .
Hopey, Changey, Justice and fairness for all. . .etc etc.
Okay. . how? What real things do you want to see happen? How would this be measured? What REAL tangible results are you looking for and how is camping in a tent for a month and urinating on the sidewalk going to help you get that? IF all these wall street guys were taken out into the street and shot how would that help you?
Well.. .Wall Street is just a metaphor for what it is we are protesting against/for! We want economic Justice!
OK What does that mean? Does that mean you want all the stuff--money, cars, opportunities that they have? Then you kinda have to do what they do or something like it.
Well . . .We want free college education for all.
Hmm... and who pays for that? It isn't free to somebody.No answer. . .
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@unknownuser said:
I heard an interview yesterday with one of the "spokespersons" of the OWS thing. . .the interviewer kept asking him "What are your goals? What is it you want to achieve? Specifically." The so-called spokesperson could not articulate in any meaningful way what it is they are trying to achieve.
The gist of the interview went . .
When the civil rights movement started, people didn’t come right out with a big list of demands — they came out in the streets and just said, ‘We’re not going to accept society the way it is" That’s the stage we’re in right now
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I don't see the connection. Back in the 60's the Civil Rights was born because a specific Group of people were illegally denied rights and privileges enjoyed by others. It started out protesting specific wrongs that needed redress. . .equal access to lunch counters, buses, toilets, movie theaters, etc. it blossomed into protesting against voter intimidation, Poll taxes, etc. This came largely in part to great leaders such as Martin Luther King, Medgar Evers and others who could speak for the people and specifically make the case for redress of these wrongs.
These OWS people are all over the map. I need a Job! Give me one! I need my college education paid for! Give it to me! Or in other words Give me Mine!
This is a cut from an op ed I read on Sunday:
@unknownuser said:
Liberal blogger Freddie DeBoer says he is "in broad solidarity with the Occupy Wall Street movement, that I celebrate the spirit of resistance for its own sake." But he finds the student loan aspect of the grievances depressing. He writes, "If the message is 'I went to college and I don't have the job and the car and the lifestyle I was promised,' then none of this means anything. These complaints, I'm sorry to say, are ultimately a way of saying 'I didn't get mine.' That's not a rejection of our failing order. It is an embrace of it in the most cynical terms."
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@unknownuser said:
Or in other words Give me Mine!
i guess if that's what you get from it then that's what you get...
(though i'm kinda thinking you're more interested in finding negatives/inconsistencies in the movement than actually trying to hear/understand the voices)but you have to realize there isn't one thing that's wrong... there isn't one issue being protested.. it's a whole mess of issues and people have had enough..
check out the front page of today's new york times for more on this:
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@solo said:
Just out of curiosity, do you believe in global climate change?
Of course (I believe in global warming). But I also believe that we still don't quite understand what causes it.
But more to the point is what I worry about a growing number of (mainly young) people who have a very low opinion about humanity on the whole. I am also concerned about ways the so called self or government appointed "experts" tell us we are all heading to catastrophe and so dictate to us how we should live. I feel we are fast tracking ourselves on a steady path of regression, (by playing on people's fears about things like runaway population as well as climate change) and I believe this will eventually lead back to a much harder way of life we left in the past, a long time ago. I think many people have forgotten just how hard it used to be, and how hard it used to be without simple things such as pain killers and cures for many illnesses. I should point out that the government love this regressive trend because it means they don't have to invest in new technologies and industry any longer (hence the term "lazy capitalism"). No investment means far fewer jobs.
I have a progressive nature. I'm 100% for the human race as well as our future. I want to help teach my children to design, build a space-age future complete with cars that use highly efficient alternatives to fossil fuels etc. But I also believe that we still need to burn coal as well as oil in order to get there (if you see what I mean?)
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@juanv.soler said:
just in case you have not watched it yet
[attachment=0:11d9h0fd]<!-- ia0 -->harrased police.JPG<!-- ia0 -->[/attachment:11d9h0fd]
perplexed police
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=N9HvJhilJzo#!Yes indeed, it looks like Sergeant Shamar Thomas has maintained his honour and was displaying (multiple decorations on his chest) his 'right' to walk and make peaceful demonstration on the streets on his home town, New York City!
The 1% will find it very difficult to hold total control without the full unwavering support of the police ..... looks like this support is coming into question!
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I think you're being a tad too optimistic, Mike. It pains me to say this, but I'm relatively certain the current protests won't change anything, and will be forgotten rather quickly. I hope I'm wrong, though.
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Stinkie, I think when the 'comfortable' (like many here on the forums) start to really feel the pinch, we will also be on the streets protesting!
Yes Jeff, There is no single issue people are protesting about and I think this will be the main reason why this movement will grow and grow. As I said in a previous post, to me, there appears to be no 'head' to the movement and this will make it impossible for the 1% to identify exactly where to strike with an iron fist or a fist of cash!
I was reading about the possible reasons for the mess over the weekend and one particular reason struck a cord. That was that globalisation is not working is its present state because it was driven by the 1% of cash Gods not people aiming for a balance.
When Joe Soap goes to a local shop and buys the cheapest suitable shirt he can find, he does not think about the fact that its made in China or India at the time. Joe then wonders why his friend is laid off from his workplace that made shirts in his locality!
The 1% have no difficulty in setting up their manufacturing in China and India, they have no loyalties to any Country only currency and cash is their God! However I feel this policy is now back firing and we are seeing the consequences. The cure? Buy local until a 'balance' is brought back to commerce! The whole economic World is out of balance and nothing will keep spinning unless its balanced.
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