Occupy Wall street
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@idahoj said:
From my readings, it appears the OWS protests are pretty much focused on companies within sovereign borders.
Further proof that no one really knows what they are marching for!
On the radio this morning the 5 major energy companies in Great Britain announced even more price rises. Some bills have increased over 100%!!! Yet the government are doing bugger all (why am I not surprised?). Labour interjected, with the same old "we would have done that" when everyone knows quite well, that in power, they wouldn't.
With energy, it's down to investment, and it's something we won't see with "renewables"- well we will, in the way of wind turbines, because they cost millions to put up and service. But that all comes out of our pockets as energy corporations don't want to invest- and with a population frightened off by a nuclear only future, is that hardly surprising?
....and this is why I raised the point about Greenpeace and the WWF. Yes it probably will "spark more visceral responses", but they, and privatisation (as well as public share holders) are very much part of 'the problem' too.
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@unknownuser said:
In this day and age, it just does not make sense to me that I elect a politician based on what they stand for and says they will do and then they go back on their word and do as they please or are 'encouraged' to do by the 1%.
...
But what if, an elected Government, having a majority, would also be required to have a majority of citizen continuing support votes on an ongoing basis in order to pass bills / laws as stated in their election manifesto. Surely something like this would keep them on the 'straight and narrow' AND more importantly NOT give the 1% the inclination or ability to 'buy them off'!
I agree that this is a crucial problem in every country in the world, and a good suggestion...I would only add that there should also be more influence of people on media (TV, newspapers), which forms public opinion in a way those 1% wants, for money. It specially affects younger population and kids.
I'm glad the conversation like this is taking place
. It is really good way for better World, thanks to the internet. -
@mike lucey said:
A byegone parasite IMO, Mayer Amschel Rothschild quote states, Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes her laws. We still have these parasites in our midst!
Mike, I know it wasn't your intention, but I'd be really careful how you use the word "parasite"!
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@tfdesign said:
Mike, I know it wasn't your intention, but I'd be really careful how you use the word "parasite"!
Can you think of a better word to describe this type of low life!
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"jammy bast***"?
"lucky bas*****"??!
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@tfdesign said:
Why prosecute bankers? Prosecute the real culprits, Governments!!
maybe.. but.. what happens if the bankers are the govt?
the banks/corporations have infiltrated our government.further, I think it's time to start prosecuting individuals for their crimes instead of piling them into one group "the government" or "the banker" etc.
maybe start off with dick Cheney. this guy owns possibly the largest construction firm in the world.
he blows up entire countries then hires himself to go rebuild the place for billions of dollars.
Or maybe he likes to use his governmental position to force third world countries into 'modernizing' their electrical grid or plumbing system.. placing them in debt to the u.s. banks/corps for the next 60 years or so.
Cheney is the government, a corporation, and a banker... and there are plenty of others just like him. -
@tfdesign said:
Further proof that no one really knows what they are marching for!
to an extent, yes.. no one really knows exactly..
we (at least americans?) generally have no idea how our monetary system actually works.. there's no way in hell the bankers are going to teach us their system or rules of the game in schools.. they won't make that information easily available either..
if we really knew what was going on then their game would be over. immediately.. even someone like my mom wouldn't stand for the b.s. but as is, she's probably a bit scared by these protests.. she's probably thinking the protesters are terrorists or something because she's so uneducated about the u.s. financial institutions.but, she does know that it costs her $5 to take money out of a bank.. her own money!
she does know that she's struggling to keep her house and keep her husband alive (heart issues)
she works 50+ hours per week in a factory.. she's busting her ass.. and she's having a hard/stressful time just to keep a shelter over her head..
this same scenario is happening a few million times over in the u.s. and in many cases, much worse..we are taught to work hard and we'll have a comfy life.. the american dream..
well, the american dream is a hoax and the country is finally waking up to it..
people are getting too greedy.. they are taking too much.. and they are going to fall because of it. -
I don't know. I don't think "greedy" is the right word. More like 'ignorant' perhaps?
In Britain the south has become so affluent, that most people living down there seem to have lost control of their senses. It seems people forget once they become comfortable.
Both our current leaders (hung parliament, because so few came out to vote), are both ex-Etonians. They have practically no grasp on reality at all. You're more likely to get into one of the top 5 universities (Oxbridge etc) if you went to public school (Eton is a well known British public school that only sons of bankers are most likely to afford) and paid the Β£5000 per term entry fees, rather than going to a state comprehensive government funded school school.
Did you also know the majority of 11 year olds who went to state schools over the last 20 years don't even know what an architect does, whereas ask someone from a public school, and you will get a different answer? As a matter of fact, if you are a well known RIBA architect, it's more than likely that your children will also go to public school.
Same probably goes for the monetary system, as we no longer live in a meritocracy. But when our leaders are also both ex-public school, this is hardly surprising.
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@unknownuser said:
maybe.. but.. what happens if the bankers are the govt?
the banks/corporations have infiltrated our government.Aye. And vice versa: quite a few of our politicians and former politicians have cushy jobs on the boards of banks, insurance companies, and whatnot.
@unknownuser said:
maybe start off with dick Cheney.
If it were up to me, Cheney would rot in jail. I'm willing to accept George W. felt he was on a moral mission of sorts, but Cheney surely had no other objective than money and power. As far as I'm concerned, the man's just as big an evil tw*t as Bin Laden was.
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@unknownuser said:
If it were up to me, Cheney would rot in jail.
Why bother? What would it achieve? He'd only be replaced by another twit.
@unknownuser said:
Perhaps a revolution can overthrow autocratic despotism and profiteering or power-grabbing oppression, but it can never truly reform a manner of thinking; instead, new prejudices, just like the old ones they replace, will serve as a leash for the great unthinking mass.
Immanuel Kant; An Answer to the Question: What is Enlightenment? 1784 (Excerpt)
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just in case you have not watched it yet
perplexed police
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=N9HvJhilJzo#! -
Under the circumstances what could the police do? I think they behaved very amicably this time considering the circumstances. The police otoh were wrong to arrest all those on the bridge the other day. If they'd arrested this guy, it would have probably sparked a riot! Personally I thought he should have saved his anger and become the next Malcolm X!
America needs new leaders! This guy's got more passion than Obama! That can only be a good thing!
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@tfdesign said:
@unknownuser said:
If it were up to me, Cheney would rot in jail.
Why bother? What would it achieve? He'd only be replaced by another twit.
I didn't mean it literally, but as a shorthand.
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I know what you meant.
On a lighter, more creamy note...
Ben & Jerry's have now got in on the act! Just how cynical is this?
http://www.benjerry.com/activism/occupy-movement/
"Suck up your favourite ('organic'?) ice cream with a clear conscience!"
Rock on bez & jez
They play the environmental card- obviously good PR on their behalf, but one of the main reasons we are paying crazy taxes as well as increased fuel bills is because environmentalists have chosen to play on peoples fear about climate change. So we are now heading for targets we can't achieve, and as a result we must pay more taxes! Consumables cost money. They need massive investment, because energy companies need to pay their shareholders. The profits they make are astronomical. And another big freeze is forecasted in Europe again this year.
This is part of the reason I played the Greenpeace and WWF card before. They're all part of the 'greater picture'!
It is highly likely that this will evoke emotions- but emotions are the reason these games that are played by governments and aforementioned organisations become so personal to the general public- especially the middle classes. -
@unknownuser said:
because environmentalists have chosen to play on peoples fear about climate change
And republicans play on our fear of everything else in order to get huge military contracts to big campaign contributors and stripping us of rights with their Patriot act.
Just out of curiosity, do you believe in global climate change?
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Fear does seem to be a great motivator on all sides. We all use it, for big and small.
I prefer apathy. Apathy motivates to me to do as little as I'd like to. Now again, please vote for me for president.
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Things would be so much better if the OWS crowd was in charge. Oh wait, what is this article I see?
Surprise: OWS protesters donβt like their own wealth redistributed
On second thought, I guess human nature extends even to the OWS crowd...
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@david. said:
On second thought, I guess human nature extends even to the OWS crowd...
this happened in Puerta del Sol , in Madrid. It was the main reason for deciding to get out and desmantle the camping. It lasted over two months which is quite a lot. It is a hard issue to solve. And a very easy way to discredit the movement.
Maybe the way is to get out, do not camp, and return every morning day by day.In any case, I am afraid things are going to get unpredictable as far as euro collapse and thus dollar is closer and closer .
Hi you, Dave H - Supermouse, come a bit down to earth, things are not like you see up there Β‘
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I heard an interview yesterday with one of the "spokespersons" of the OWS thing. . .the interviewer kept asking him "What are your goals? What is it you want to achieve? Specifically." The so-called spokesperson could not articulate in any meaningful way what it is they are trying to achieve.
The gist of the interview went like this. . .
Hopey, Changey, Justice and fairness for all. . .etc etc.
Okay. . how? What real things do you want to see happen? How would this be measured? What REAL tangible results are you looking for and how is camping in a tent for a month and urinating on the sidewalk going to help you get that? IF all these wall street guys were taken out into the street and shot how would that help you?
Well.. .Wall Street is just a metaphor for what it is we are protesting against/for! We want economic Justice!
OK What does that mean? Does that mean you want all the stuff--money, cars, opportunities that they have? Then you kinda have to do what they do or something like it.
Well . . .We want free college education for all.
Hmm... and who pays for that? It isn't free to somebody.No answer. . .
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@unknownuser said:
I heard an interview yesterday with one of the "spokespersons" of the OWS thing. . .the interviewer kept asking him "What are your goals? What is it you want to achieve? Specifically." The so-called spokesperson could not articulate in any meaningful way what it is they are trying to achieve.
The gist of the interview went . .
When the civil rights movement started, people didnβt come right out with a big list of demands β they came out in the streets and just said, βWeβre not going to accept society the way it is" Thatβs the stage weβre in right now
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