Autocad Lt to Archicad is it worth it?
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Hi all
But here's my story
I'm a self employed Architectural designer who works on new/alterations to Houses and small commercial buildings. I have been working on Sketchup for design and then Autocad 2005 Lt for the construction documentation. I'm so so over using Autocad 2005 Lt and tend to not enjoy the later part of jobs because of it. I don't enjoy the fact I feel I would be just as fast to hand draw, except when it comes to making changes. I'm not the fastest cad operator, but feel this maybe down to really not feeling any enjoyment out of using it. Unlike Sketchup
I think its time to upgrade. I have alot of drafting work to do the year. I'm looking at a reasonable package from Archicad called Start Edition. Which is half the price of the full version. I'm interested at BIM. The idea of changing a note on the floor plan and it being changed on any corresponding elevations, section etc sounds to good to be true. What I'm looking for is, something which is going to speed my productivity, and an enjoyable software to work with.
My questions are to anyone whom may have experience in this.
-Does it take long to learn (how long is a piece of string) I'd like to hear how you found it
-Also did it take a while to go from Drafting in 3d compared to 2d (Autocad Lt)
-Is BIM all that its cracked up to be for a person who works for himself.I will try the demo but would like to hear any advice before investing lots of time I don't have doing that.
If I am going to upgrade I would only look at Archicad, Revit, Vectorworks and Autocad. Because all the major Arch companies work with these. So if I every need to apply for a job at a company I will have the know how.
Any advice is welcomed.Regards
Jonathan -
Hi Holmes,
I have an opinion. (On just about everything if you ask my wife)
Archicad is the program I use at my day job. It can be an
amazing tool in the right hands. Unfortunately not that many
users get to that point. Out of the 10 people associated with my
company that are using the program, Two of them are proficient,
and only one of the two can produce a decent model.This is not to say that it is a bad program. It just takes a devoted,
focused, continuous effort to master it.In my opinion programs like archicad are best suited for larger companies
that employ cad/bim specialists.The learning curve is big!
There is a thread called "still looking for a good drafting companion" or something
along those lines that discusses a lot of options. Might be worth a look on your part.Good luck.
p
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Here's another opinion, and you know what opinions are like.
Have you looked at DoubleCadXT? This is a Autocad "workalike", that has been mentioned in these forums before. There is a free version. However, you said you are tired of Autocad. I am tired of Autocad, too. It just gets bigger and bigger.
Look in the current topic "Revit 2010" started by Krisidious.
The description of the interoperability of Revit and Sketchup is depressing. Yet, apparently some people enjoy the process of porting in and out, back and forth, tweak this, tweak that, and so on. Deadlines? what are those?If a tool is too difficult to handle, that is, learning curve, you have to decide if it is worth investing your time.
And, in time, whatever I think will evaporate, anyway.
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My recipe for a good BIM app:
Take one half of Archicad and one half of Revit and mix throroughly. Wrap it up in SketchUp.Seriously, what you need depends on your workflow. If what you want to do is model in SU and just produce drawings out of your model, I would rather recommend a general purpose drafting application instead of a BIM app.
Using Archicad or Revit would in most cases mean building your model anew from scratch. Of course, using a BIM solution can help in controlling and streamlining the documentation. The limitation is that the information still has to be fed into the system - in most cases using a BIM app resembles more filling a sheaf of tax forms instead of Sketchupping.
I have been on and off of Archicad for a long time. I first tried it maybe in 1989. By now it is quite a mature product, but it also bears somewhat the burden of its long history - for instance, it still relies heavily on layers. I do not think much of it as a general purpose drafting application, but I know people who use it like that and even prefer it to AutoCad.
I am now trying to learn Revit. Compared to Archicad it has even less standard "drafting" features, and I understand most of its users use some CAD app by its side to do detailing etc.
Anssi
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One of my favorite topics!
AutoCad was the first Cat or was it Cad? out of the door, way back when. Its also amazing how Autodesk has been able over the years to buy out all its competitors, accept ArchiCad and thankfully not Sketchup
Unfortunately most offices still use AutoCad. Which has grown in size to be rightfully called bloatware, along with Photoshop, Nero, and others. Its software that developers think needs to be upgraded each year so as to entice existing yours to keep upgrading to generate revenue streams, and new users are incited to apply to learn through attending Software Universities. Its all very brilliant marketing.However I still have v14 on a HDD, in case a former client needs to make additional copies.
I left AutoCad 10 years ago, and learned ArchiCad, which has a steep learning curve. However at the end nlike AutoCad I had a 3d drawing from which you could, generate automatic sections, plans, elevations, and renderings including lights etc. All of this worked, as long as you don't explode the 3d model.
I also got into learning the GDL API and producing parametric 3d objects which was far easier to learn than learning SketchUp's Ruby API.
However, the main drawback with all these CAD packages is with producing detail drawings. For example, suppose the client wants the Metal Door Frame installed against a 6" steel stud wall with GWB on both sides with a 1/2" reveal between the GWB and the frame. Normally this involves a detail sheet showing a Head, Jamb and Sill condition, those kind of details even today, I find much easier to produce the old fashion way, using Vellum on a drafting board. Then you have to transfer the detail number references from the hand drawn detail sheets back to cad drawings. I'm not familiar with Revit, but I doubt it has that level of working drawing detail either.There are no easy answers, I suspect your going to have to jump in, make your own experiences, and then pass own your knowledge on to others
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AutoCAD to ArchiCAD... DON'T DO IT!!! my opinion...
i have used acad for ~13 years and now have to work with archicad at the office since 2 years now... it's a pain in the a**! it's lacking so much basic functions of CAD and every single option is 2 or 3 times slower/more complicated compared to archicad...
eg.: to switch from box to cross selection you have to use a flyout!!! not like in acad or sketchup only drag left or right...
and it's the same to the most parameters you want to change - there's always an extra step to go...
And the biggest no-no for me is the missing block element! It's incredible, i think an easy to use block/component function is the core element of fast cad editing! It has to work just like in sketchup with it's components.
In archicad you can create an object, but how can you edit it?!? easy! explode it, make your changes, resave it and exchange the other objects of the same type with the new one!!!
this was what i've been told by the graphisoft support! 
not worth discussing... and how about the base point of the new objects?!? are they still the same?!?...
And a last one: try to change the properties (like color, line type...) for a bunch of "different" object like lines, arcs, polylines, splines at once... in acad you can select as much different types as you like, all matching properties will be changed at once by one clic. In archicad you have to do this for every! object type seperately!!! (yes, lines, arcs, polylines and splines are counted as 4 separate types!!! )
and zooming/paning through a slightly bigger plan is soooo sloooow a can't believe it! i can copy the same plan 10x in acad and still work fluently.I think when you're working with virtual building models with only simple objects and not much design changes after the first run, it's a nice app... But not for construction drawings or when you have many changes in your project.
And look at the prices of acad/acad lt and archicad! maybe an architectural tool set for acad would be the better choice...Or take a look at Vectorworks. It has evolved very much in the last three years and is quite nice (i have worked with vw12/2008 for 1 year)
Just my opinion.
You should take a look at the demo version of archicad - then you will see...
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take a look at these drawings done with a combination of powerCADD 8 and SketchUp.
http://architosh.com/forums/showthread.php?t=594
nice eh?
Apart from Vectorworks, I haven't used the big BIM packages. So I can't really comment. However, I did train on ACad/ Architectural Desktop, and absolutely hated it!
SketchUp is really lovely (So is PC8 too- If you have a Mac that is). Much better than many of the so-called "serious" packages at visualisation stuff.
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WOW
Thank you all for your in depth views.
I suppose I just have to get out there and try some demo's -
@numerobis said:
it's a nice app... But not for construction drawings or when you have many changes in your project.
Your so right! Most CAD packages, somehow think there will never be any changes.
I had a client that decided to increase the size of the kitchen by 2' which meant the building envelope increase 2', which affected everything from foundations to roof slope. That change occurred when I had almost completed the working drawings. Many clients mistakenly think because your using a CAD system, making changes are as easy, as fixing a typing mistake.
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@tomot said:
I had a client that decided to increase the size of the kitchen by 2' which meant the building envelope increase 2', which affected everything from foundations to roof slope. That change occurred when I had almost completed the working drawings. Many clients mistakenly think because your using a CAD system, making changes are as easy, as fixing a typing mistake.
This is the situation where a good BIM package should excel. You make the change in the model, and all the documentation should "automatically" update. Archicad and Revit are almost there. In traditional CAD you really have to make the change in all the required separate documents yourself.
Anssi
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@anssi said:
all the documentation should "automatically" update
fwiw, this is exactly what Solidworks also does- but for engineering. Create an assembly, change something, then a huge box appears with a massive list of errors, and "you really didn't want to do that" pop-up windows!!
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