Onyx trees into SU
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Onyx trees generally are way too poly-intensive for use in SU; and as Richard says, their internal structure is one of all the leaves being separate entities rather rather instances of the same component. It's further complicated in that the leaves themselves often come into SU triangulated and sometimes with a blue back face evident, so they need to be edited. At the very least, you have to explode the entire canopy (which can hang-up SU for ages), then switch to wireframe and select/hide all the edges. The alternative being to edit each leaf...one at a time.
I've found the best use of Onyx to be that of a reference tool; generating a 3D model that can then be emulated in SU, assembling a similar tree from scratch, using a proper component structure and transparent images for entire leaf clumps. Dare I mention the term "Tree Factory"?
It's about the only way you can get an end product that's actually usable in any numbers as opposed to a single tree that may look fantastic, but brings your system to its knees with no help from any other geometry.
You can also use Onyx generate realistic leaf clumps which could then be alpha-imaged and used on top of a low-poly tree skeleton in a 2.5D kind of way...have the trunk and branches as normal 3D but have the leaf clumps spinning around at appropriate points on the structure to always Face Camera. I've tried this myself; get it right and you'd swear you were looking at a fully 3D tree. I've produced some in a similar way for FF, but can't post one here.
There is one on the 3DW that uses the same principle here...but proper alpha leaf clumps would be better. Personally I'd do what I usually do and leave the pngs rectangular, but non-shadow casting, and set up a separate shadow-caster.A similar piece of software worth considering (if you want great, hi-poly trees for instancing in a photoreal renderer that can handle the poly count) is XFrog. They not only have complete libraries for sale with ready-to go models in about 9 different formats, but they also have the XFrog modeller itself, with which you can create plants from scratch or edit existing ones. There is a standalone version or add-ons for Max, Maya and C4D. They also have very fancy kit for poly-reduction and even producing variable LOD. A bit pricey for my taste though...although the libraries themselves aren't too bad at about $150 per.
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Thanks alan
I've played ith Xfrog but don't find it as easy as onxy though still a gteat app! Does the leaves from xfrog come in as components???
The beauty of getting either of these apps and using them even in a primitive process is that SU MUST (yes I said MUST) at some stage soon be re-engined to handle this type of poly count or slowly I fear loose it's flavour! New apps appear nearly every day and it I'd suggest modelling in an almost real time rendered (at least ray trace and good GI) will surely be available sooner than later. Particularly now Nvidia have purchased Mental Ray - one wonders where that will go!
All said depending on the render app you use I know that pavol (maxwell plugin developer) is expecting to xref high poly components and maybe even actual MXS (maxwell studio) files. This would mean OBJ files exported from Onyx imported to MXS where mapping is maintained then material edited and used to replace the low poly SU component upon export!
I'm sure other apps will follow this lead!
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Yes, I agree Richard...Onyx is easier to use. I'm also playing with another one...a freebie from Stanford...called DRYAD
It also exports to obj format, but is a little flaky and sometimes just seizes up altogether...usually because it can't connect to the server. It has a rather quirky UI, but has many of the controls of the other two. Anything produced gets uploaded to the server and then forms a basis for any future creations by you or anyone else. As a quick, random generator it's pretty good. I find it quite useful for spitting out quick trunk/branch elements that can be edited and utilized in a SU tree farm. I wouldn't contemplate exporting a full-leaf version to SU. They sometimes have over 1 million polys.
Here's a quick export...rather more polys than I'd use myself from scratch, but not bad for a couple of minutes work.
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Hello ..!
Richard, please be kind enough to explain a little secret material?
I already have some Xforg in. Tiff
I did my materials (MXM) using the 'ClipMap' of the material editor and the result is this:
Shot at 2009-04-25
Yours are excellent, as you do it?
Thanks in advance
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@ideas_arte said:
Hello ..!
Richard, please be kind enough to explain a little secret material?
I already have some Xforg in. Tiff
I did my materials (MXM) using the 'ClipMap' of the material editor and the result is this:Shot at 2009-04-25
Yours are excellent, as you do it?
Thanks in advance
Mate for one it doesn't look like a great map to start with, bit low res! It also looks like the white area of your clip map needs to be expanded a pixel of two you would need to do this in an image editor!
BTW the trees in the image I posted are full 3d not clip maps!!
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It might also help to increase the SketchUp transparency quality in the syles window.
Chris
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This is my onyx trees in some project. All are 3D.
http://www.sketchucation.com/forums/scf/viewtopic.php?f=81&t=17206It takes a lot of time to adjust trees for SU. Average size of tree ~ 10 - 20 Mb.
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@richard said:
Mate for one it doesn't look like a great map to start with, bit low res! It also looks like the white area of your clip map needs to be expanded a pixel of two you would need to do this in an image editor!
BTW the trees in the image I posted are full 3d not clip maps!!
thanks Chris, Aidus & Richard for answering ..!
I found this link: http://www.sketchucation.com/forums/scf/viewtopic.php?f=81&t=18038&p=145347&hilit=onyx%2C+maxwell#p145347
and the idea is excellent Richard , my problem is I can not create the material (MXM).
•What bites is the best format to use?
•What is the recommended resolution?Thanks in advance.
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Mate the tree I used in that thread was originally 3d then rendered with alpha and depth maps exported. The depth map was used for displacement.
Without the depth map it would be hard to get the same effect.
In regards to the materials for the MXM, the bigger the map the better obviously. For most materials and maps I create from scratch I use images about 2400x2400 pixels. The ones for that tree were about 4000 x 1500.
For clip maps I'd suggest alwys using tiff format as jpg tends to have some random grey artifacts at the edges between the black and white, this will ruin the clipping effect.
I think generally your MXM is fine just the maps pretty crappy.
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@chris fullmer said:
It might also help to increase the SketchUp transparency quality in the syles window.
Chris
Chris that is his Maxwell render! The shadows would be a square otherwise!
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@richard said:
Chris that is his Maxwell render!
Oh my, yes my suggestion won't help in that case!
Chris
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@aidus said:
This is my onyx trees in some project. All are 3D.
http://www.sketchucation.com/forums/scf/viewtopic.php?f=81&t=17206It takes a lot of time to adjust trees for SU. Average size of tree ~ 10 - 20 Mb.
Mate you did well to get them down to that size! I'm finding my trees are ending up around 35Mb - I cant even paint them in SU as they just stall.
I'm currently working on creating what I hope will be the answer to good low poly trees for SU - so I'll keep all posted.http://www.sketchucation.com/forums/scf/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=18367
Hopefully too Pavol (MR exporter developer) can pull off his belief that MXS files may be able to be substituted for SU place holders upon export, this will be a very cool feature if ever included, as correct leaf and bark mapping within Studio from Onyx exports is just a drag on function.
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THNX RICHARD...!
I still have problems with UV but got the most important thing ..!
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Richard.
Pavol is working on this problem. He said that probably next plugin update can add external proxies even mxm files. So if he can do such update then there is no more need for taking huge geometry trees in sketchup. -
@aidus said:
Richard.
Pavol is working on this problem. He said that probably next plugin update can add external proxies even mxm files. So if he can do such update then there is no more need for taking huge geometry trees in sketchup.I know mate it will be so cool! Hey not sure what you mean about proxies for MXM files?
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Well now you need to place complex tree in skp format directly in your project. I thin pavol is working on stuf which allows us to add mxm file as proxy not putting complex tree in main model. With this we can simply use very realistic trees like evermotion trees.
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@aidus said:
Well now you need to place complex tree in skp format directly in your project. I thin pavol is working on stuf which allows us to add mxm file as proxy not putting complex tree in main model. With this we can simply use very realistic trees like evermotion trees.
I'd say now they will try and save this and all the bug fixes till version 2 of maxwell! I hope though they will consider fixing the bugs in studio and release a fully working version of 1.? so that those restrained by the current economic climate are forced to buy V2 to gain the fixes!
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