Impressive Sketchup House model needed
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Just a thought. Why not have a forum section where people could promote themselves? That way, anyone who did not want to be bothered by such rampant commercialism could ignore that section all together. The only additional rule required would be that the commercial aspect must have some relationship to Sketchup (i.e. selling entourage would be OK, but selling cars would not!)
Perhaps the posts in this section could be automatically deleted after a sufficient period (6 months?)
And maybe only members who have made a meaningful contribution to SCF would be allowed to post there.
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There was such a forum at one point, although it was removed for reasons i cant remember.
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It was also removed from the Google Sketchup Help Groups (previously @Last Pro forums) and is hre now:
http://groups.google.com/group/sketchup-jobs?hl=en&lnk= -
I have made an earlier suggestion that the forum includes an 'affilliates' shop, simmilar to that offered by PLIMUS (no advertisement honestly) from which the forum could earn commission on sales of commercial products linked to the forum eShop. This could provide a platform for product announcements and promotions so that these do not have to clutter the regular forums. Members would support such a venture with the knowledge that they are contributing to the development and maintenance of the SCF forums. If it makes any money on top of the overheads it could be used to support some of the community project ideas that have been suggested. There may be a need for some transparency though - but that's another issue.
Despite a declared interest, I also find the technology discussions relating to various software and hardware products add some value to my experience as a Sketchup user and a consumer of these forums.
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in my years as an architect i have had several propositions that would, in the end, "give me exposure and bring me lots of work". once it was an offer to publish in Vogue-Brasil (paying $5.000 for it), many other times it meant charging less or nothing for projects that would "make my name" or be the "first step in a sequence of commmissions".
fortunately, my vanity was not big enough to fall for the vogue trap but i did design a few buildings at much less then the normal fee. of course, doing that brought me nothing more than disrespect. the client who paid me X demanded of me the same service he would get for 10X.
to contribute work for free to something which is a commercial venture sounds strange, to say the least. would anyone go after me because of a model published in book so and so? i doubt it. any kind of payment, as symbolic as it may be, could give this proposition a better appearance.
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Well said Edson
I experienced this myself as well.
The ironic thing is that getting paid the right amount, earns you the respect of the client, while 'bending over' for a client creates disrespect.Concerning 'common policy' in the publishing business, getting your book content for free: it is not because it is common that it makes it a good thing to get involved in.
Things like crime, sigarets, etc are also commonly spread...but not that good for your health.It is not an ethical business policy to earn money while not considering the people that contribute to it.
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The thing is though, he didn't specifically ask any one in particular to go out of their way to make something for free for him. He asked if anyone had something already built he could use. So it would be a model someone had already been paid to make, and he just wants to use it for images in a book. For which he will pay in advertising.
Again though, I would not do it because I don't fit the profile of who he's looking for as apparently most of us don't. And I also agree that a bit of money $100US would probably have been enough to quiet most of the original complaints.
Still, if you are looking for free advertising, its not that bad of a deal......maybe. Its not worth chasing him off the forum for sure. I hope he comes back.
Chris
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I feel bad now. An associate sent me some chapters of a new textbook which have to do with SketchUp. I edited them and offered him some suggestions. I should have asked for a cut of those astronomical profits he is going to enjoy
Al Hart
IRender nXt from Render Plus -
Seems to me the target of this "debate" was, as is so often the case, way off target.
The common not-so-misconception that architects will do work for free is driven not by ignorance on the part of clients, but on anti-competitive unprofessional behaviour within the architecture profession. All too often the (not always, but often) less talented architect practices choose to undercut their competitors, just to get the job and the client (and of course to deny their competitors the same). Here in Sweden there has been a very public case of a huge development/construction firm (with a small in-house architect department) who won an important national competition largely on the basis that their fees were so low that they openly admitted they would actually make a loss on the project. No independant architecture firm could even consider reducing their fees to such levels. The only people who benefit from this sort of behaviour are the property developers, who just sit back and watch the money roll in while the architects work themselves into an early grave hoping that one day all these freebies will pay off and someone will offer them amazing fees for a fantastic project as a big karmic thank you for all their years of voluntary work... as if.
In other words, I'm not as offended by potential clients asking for freebies/discounts as I am by the architects-next-door who will ingratiatingly oblige them, demeaning the entire profession and blighting the urban and rural landscapes with their formulaic "Designed" knock-offs.
Kent,
If you're still reading, sorry this thread went so off-topic, but I don't think I've derailed it any further. Although it obviously wasn't your intent, but you inadvertantly planted the seed of an issue which, especially in these financially challenging times needs to be discussed openly IMO. Although it may not seem that way, I read this whole thread, am familiar with almost all of the contributers and can assure you that there's not one mean-spirited character amongst them, I guess everyone's nerves are just a little raw under the current circumstances. -
@unknownuser said:
I read this whole thread, am familiar with almost all of the contributers and can assure you that there's not one mean-spirited character amongst them...
Jackson, are you trying to ruin my reputation or what? Please don't stereotype me with other members of this forum.
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Yeah, true. Me neither. I am mean like this
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He he
Your post turned a smile on my face Jackson.
<Group hug mode:on > -
Jackson, that explains things very well. I really hope that Ken, if you are still reading this post you continue to join in the banter here.
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@jackson said:
I read this whole thread, am familiar with almost all of the contributers and can assure you that there's not one mean-spirited character amongst them
Feisty bunch, though.
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Good post, Jackson.
And this has nothing to do with the original thread, but in response to your post.
I would add that if you compare the cost of construction, engineering, financing, and the life of the building, a low architect's fee means nothing in the overall project. It is simply the first cost the client sees. So with this low fee, the architect might actually conceive something nice, but not manage to develop the design or document and administer the construction properly. So anything you save on fees will cost many times over in change orders and a substandard building. It's pound-foolish and penny-wise to coin a phrase.
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There is some dispute over whether these words are those of John Ruskin but they sum up an age old truth that will remain long after this debate is gone:
@unknownuser said:
“There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price only are this man's lawful prey.”
.
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@toxicvoxel said:
There is some dispute over whether these words are those of John Ruskin but they sum up an age old truth that will remain long after this debate is gone:
@unknownuser said:
“There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price only are this man's lawful prey.”
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Conversely... 'There is nothing in this world that someone cannot make better and cheaper...
We live in a consumer driven 'free market' society that is out of control. Jackson's post was well stated, however, Architects are not the only ones who suffer from this dilema. Anyone who provides a service or manufactures a product is prone to price cutting. Consider the small storekeeper who is driven out of business by Wallmart, or the manufacturer who cannot compete with foreign child labor and low costs. Who is to blame when people cannot make ends meet and are forced to buy cheap goods and who among us is not guilty. It is easy to blame someone like Kent, however, my question is, if he agreed to pay someone on this forum who has criticized him for the model, would that person then take the money and use it to purchase 'fair trade' or just go looking for a bargain?
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@unknownuser said:
Conversely... 'There is nothing in this world that someone cannot make better and cheaper...
I do not believe that this statement holds true for the services provided by architects or any other design discipline for that matter.
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I believe it should read "better OR cheaper"
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Architecture is not immune from competitive pricing although in that field it is frowned upon and advertising of said prices is generally illegal in many states. If a client is seeking the services of either an architect or home designer and has limited funds (we are after all in a serious recession with some deflation) they will be drawn towards a fee that they can afford.
Higher pricing does not equate to higher quality in the service industry. This is not only true with architecture but in medicine, auto repair, law, etc. Freebies and undercutting your competitors fees is a fact of life and I have seen this done for the past 24 years – although I have never done anything for free nor made a conscious decision to charge less than my competitors.
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