Impressive Sketchup House model needed
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I don't think there's any need to feel sorry. All you did, was disagree with Kent. You did so both politely and eloquently.
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Kwist,
I'm sorry the "signature" offends you. I specifically asked and got permission for that last year from the moderators. I don't want to do anything "against the rules".
I'm sorry that people who are doing the best they can to make a living is offensive to you. I have been a long standing member of the SketchUp community and slowly tranformed into selling commercial products over time. I developed many friends here and most of them are "rooting" for me and support me. I like to support others who are trying to start or promote a business as well as I know how tough it is. Generally the products that are advertised in and around forums such as this are quite directed and geared to the very audience that participates in the forum. It can be useful. If there weren't many people who were interested in the advertised products then people wouldn't advertise, so clearly some people find the adverts beneficial.I don't know why those of you who are in a "service" business think that any one who is selling a product is rolling in dough and represents evil big business and has no right to bring your attention to their product. Architecture is a specialized and tiny market and traditional advertising is so expensive as to make it impossible to use and still offer the product at a marketable price.
Yes I support any individual or group of individuals who is starting a business, struggling with a business and small enough to be personally involved in these forums. That is not to say I support only people who sell a product. I also offers services in training and modelling. I certainly understand the point of view that those of us who are performing a service are too often aske to provide above and beyond the contracted amount for free and, yes it is frustrating, but this isn't that situation. I give away a whole bunch of my stuff for free under various circumstances. Not the least is my time and my knowledge but often hard product as well. It is sometimes good business to do so and it is sometimes me just plain wanting to be helpful.
I have mouths to feed, as do you but I don't receive a paycheck. It is easy to be holier-than-though if you haven't tried to run your own business and have no empathy. Maybe you have run your own business and are so overwhelmingly successful that you don't have to make any marketing efforts. If so, then lucky you but we are not all so fortuneate. I do aplogize that my trying to make a living is so repugnant to you.
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Linea you should not feel guilty at all. One should not give ones work for free , full stop.
I am sick of people telling how this is a standard in industry....using other people to better themselves.
Apart from having architectural firm for nearly 20 years I also lecture at Northampton University. I should use my students do work for free for me. Hell no. It is imoral and I would never approve of that.Susan I am pretty sure you have a lot of entourage DVD which are not selling well and collecting dust. Why don't you send them to me and in return I will tell all my clients and students about you. It is pretty much standard sort of thing in our industry.
edit: for the record these are my peersonal views and nothing to do with Podium
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Sepo, i dont think kent was asking anyone to work for free. I interpreted his post as asking wether or not anyone had a model that would be suitable for his use, and in return theyd get credited etc.
So either you have a model and let it sit on your hard drive doing bugger all, or you let him use the model and get a bit of advertising for free.
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But what do you lose by letting him use your work?
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OOOH! this is gonna be a long debated thread, and it should be too as this is a topic that comes up occasionaly and has never been resolved, I remember a similar one about Craig's list requests some time back.
Kent, please do not retreat from this, stand your ground, you have a valid case as do those that oppose your views, I am on the fence on this one as I see merit from my personal viewpoint being a freelance illustrator/artist that needs to get my name out there in order to generate busines to feed my family, yet I have been burned by a few 'potential' clients that required 'samples' free and I got screwed. Even though this case differs it's the same in many regards.
By the way welcome to SCF, we really are a nice, giving bunch of very talented individuals that will help without being asked or compensated, I guess a good debate was needed to kick of the corner bar for this year and you were fortunate enough to be the catalyst.I look forward to your rebuttal with anticipation.
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It is an issue of getting something for nothing and using it for commercial gain...that equates working for nothing.
It is not an issue of helping somebody who is nuby here....he proclaims to be "SU artist"
People on this forum bend backwards to help each other. If this was the case people would be jumping to help. Do not see much of that going on. -
@remus said:
But what do you lose by letting him use your work?
Let's say there is this cab guy who always does airport duty and you know that by now 'coz you travel out of town often. One day you flag a cab to go to the airport and it happens to be this guy. So you tell him, "Since you are going back to the airport anyway, take me there for free". He wouldn't agree, but why?
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@unknownuser said:
Let's say there is this cab guy who always does airport duty and you know that by now 'coz you travel out of town often. One day you flag a cab to go to the airport and it happens to be this guy. So you tell him, "Since you are going back to the airport anyway, take me there for free".]
Not quite what he was asking...
However if you added that the guy asking for the free ride works in a large office with many folk that need rides to the airport from time to time and you said you would pass the word and his details around to those people then you would have a similar situation.
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I ask myself what would be a reasonable remuneration for use of an image in a book like this.
Personally I reckon if it was an exceptional design and visual, $500 should be reasonable. This would equate to $0.0017 per copy on a cycle of 300000.
If he had 200 such images it would only equate to $0.33 per book.Paying for 200 images upfront would be non-viable but a royalty arrangement based on sales would make a lot of sense (and cents!) for everybody.
- Would be interesting to hear some other points of view relating to the value of such an element.
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Seems to me that Kent's request might appeal to someone's vanity. Someone might enjoy having their model featured in a book. It seems unlikely to me that the 'credit' would ever result in any work -- unless as Mike notes you were in the pre-designed houseplans business. I suspect the demographics of people reading Kent's book are very unlikely to contact an architect half way around the world. I'd suggest they are even less likely to contact a freelance illustrator. (Perhaps different if it were a book about illustration). If Kent's offer did appeal to someone's vanity, and they responded, they might still get some marketing value out of the book. For instance, by having a copy of the book in your meeting room you could show it to new clients and perhaps gain some additonal measure of confidence. Just as there is similar value in having your projects published in journals, so too could there be value in being featured in Kent's book. When published in an architectural journal you may get some respect from your peers but it is unlikely you'll get more customers. Those you do get however may be impressed that you are published. So if I'm correct, the value is really in what you'd make of it.
Kent - Welcome to these forums.
You note that manufacturers are letting you use their pictures etc for free. Shouldn't they really be paying you something to feature their products. At least take the starving writer to lunch or offer items you can use as prizes when you promote the book. Something? Anything? Just think of all those DIY shows on TV paid for by sponsors.Regards, Ross
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Other than the adsense ads, what are you referring to kwist? Im genuinely interested to hear.
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@remus said:
Other than the adsense ads, what are you referring to kwist? Im genuinely interested to hear.
The advertisement signatures people add to the bottom of each of their messages.
If it is just a website link, I am fine with it, but lately some are full blown ads to sell products.
They are difficult to ignore and sometimes kind of 'in-your-face'.Also, threads that are advertisement in disguise.
If it is a product announcement, I am fine with it, as long as it is made clear. -
Huh, I hadn't noticed any big advertising sigs. I'll have to pay attention more,
Chris
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What Kent is doing happens all the time. There are hundreds/thousands of design books and magazines published every year where designers and manufacturers provide freebies in return for exposure.
There are lots of regular contributors to this forum who use it to promote their personal businesses through links either as signature add-ons or as part of a post solution and nobody complains about that. It seems that because Kent isn't a member of the 'club' he's being vilified for doing something that is commonly exploited.
Perhaps it's time to stop allowing anyone to add a commercial context to their posts and make it a truly non-profit forum.
If you don't want to do it, then pass. -
@kwistenbiebel said:
Also, threads that are advertisement in disguise.
If it is a product announcement, I am fine with it, as long as it is made clear.Kwist, we truely try to work agains it and often make things clear with posters like that in the background. You cannot really complain for the forums being overwhelmed with mere "promotional" posts (I just removed one last week for instance).
The forum is set that anyone can only have one link in their signatures. Use it for whatever you wish (me for a "trouble shooting email link" for instance and as SCF responses are returned in the Google SketchUp Help Center search results, you can imagine the number of help requests I receive daily).I don't want to mention the AdSene now - it hardly covers the server costs. If only we could get along without it.
@double espresso said:
Perhaps it's time to stop allowing anyone to add a commercial context to their posts and make it a truly non-profit forum.
I know it's kind of a joke but surely, apart from "how to model this in (pure, native) SketchUp", many other topics could be removed. Mentioning a render engine in the Gallery?
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@ross macintosh said:
...So if I'm correct, the value is really in what you'd make of it.
That probably is the statement we are looking for.
For Solo, giving it as a freebie might be an extra opportunity to get publicity, while Toxicvoxel did the calculation.I would settle for Toxics approach.
@Sorgesu,
I apologise for giving you the feeling I was going personal.
As I ran my own business, I know how much needs to be done to get your product/services sold.
The message I was trying to communicate is that I am not so fond about this forum becoming a place where everybody is constantly selling their product. SCF is not eBay.
To me, there is a lot of emphasis on that lately here on SCF. -
Just a thought. Why not have a forum section where people could promote themselves? That way, anyone who did not want to be bothered by such rampant commercialism could ignore that section all together. The only additional rule required would be that the commercial aspect must have some relationship to Sketchup (i.e. selling entourage would be OK, but selling cars would not!)
Perhaps the posts in this section could be automatically deleted after a sufficient period (6 months?)
And maybe only members who have made a meaningful contribution to SCF would be allowed to post there.
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There was such a forum at one point, although it was removed for reasons i cant remember.
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It was also removed from the Google Sketchup Help Groups (previously @Last Pro forums) and is hre now:
http://groups.google.com/group/sketchup-jobs?hl=en&lnk=
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