Render #22 (animation test bottom page 8)

chavinskee

Re-rendering the still view in Vray:

(to see full view without cropped right side: right click and..)

wow!!! awesome work as usual! and now using vray. care to share the visopts. been trying my hand also in vray but nothing comes cloese to your work. keep 'em coming! you inspire us to do better!

princedragoncok

How long did the v-ray render take? It is clearly better than the other renders and I'm tempted to give vray a go. Just a quick question though; how steep is the learning curve? would it be comparable to indigo or are we talking much harder? And just finally, why don't you use vray as your default renderer?

kwistenbiebel

Just like any other render engine, Vray for Sketchup has it's little downsides.
It becomes a bit unstable when polycount increases and since it has no proxies/instancing feature, a very good Sketchup file size management is needed.

For instance, those trees needed some serious poly crunching before I could use one in the scene without crashing.
Vray is quite difficult to master. At first, the render settings panel and the material editor look quite scary. Once you get the hang of it it is not so hard and your workflow improves.
Most of the time it is about finding out which buttons to leave untouched, instead of which to use.

Vray for sketchup was very buggy a time ago with a lot of workarounds that needed to be used,but things slowly seem to improve as Asgvis is pushing updates now on a more regular basis, which is a good evolution.

The render time on that latest image was appr. half an hour.

Stinkie

@princedragoncok said:

How long did the v-ray render take? It is clearly better than the other renders(...)

The other renders may not have "cooked" long enough. Vray's a great app, but Indigo's capable of better quality - if you got the time.

Nice image, Kwist. As always. Depressing, really. Certainly to someone like me, who's never been able to understand Vray.

kwistenbiebel

Thanks

Indeed, unbiased render engines like Indigo, fry and Maxwell have the potential to create more physical correct output, but the render times can be longer to get crisp output.
Not a problem for exteriors, but for interior scenes, a fairly powerful PC is needed.

princedragoncok

Interesting, the thing is I just can't be bothered getting stuck into indigo cause it takes so feicin long! Although, those guys that use blender on the indigo forum get amazingly crisp/clean images, I can only imagine they must have super computers. I can't see what's the advantage with unbiased renderers, the difference in quality isn't noticeable enough to justify the wait. 30 mins for that image is more than acceptable in my opinion. I guess it's the setup time i'm worried about..
Shame it doesn't support instancing as well

Stinkie

@princedragoncok said:

I can't see what's the advantage with unbiased renderers, the difference in quality isn't noticeable enough to justify the wait.

That of course depends on your needs. I need superb quality. I find the long render times horrific - but I have no choice. If you do, by all means, choose a biased renderer.

princedragoncok

@unknownuser said:

I need superb quality. I find the long render times horrific - but I have no choice. If you do, by all means, choose a biased renderer.

Well I'm looking at this 30 min vray render here and it looks pretty superb to me, only crit is the floating leaves.
However those blender guys on the indigo forum do make a convincing argument in favour of indigo..

Stinkie

Don't get me wrong here, I'm not trying to convince you. I'm just pointing out there in fact is quite a noticeable difference in quality. The question is: do you need the quality that unbiased rendering provides? If so, you will indeed benefit from having a very good computer. If not, Vray might indeed be the thing for you - it is a very good renderer. I've seen many very compelling Vray renders. But: the learning curve is steep. That, or I'm stupid - which might very well be the case.

In short: both options have pros and cons. There's a third option, obviously. And that's waiting til Podium V2 is released.

Repeat after me: Tavi, get off your *ss!!

princedragoncok

Well I'm a podium user myself and I love it, but it certainly has its limits and i'm beginning to have doubts about v2 - look how fast (free) indigo is moving along. V2 still won't compare to indigo in terms of functionality but it's the speed and that little extra quality that i'll be looking forward to. V2 is taking it's time though..

plot-paris

I simply love the ease of use with Indigo...

double clicking on a material to access the indigo specific settings
change of the materials appearance within SketchUp when importing
preview render for materials
use of (even textured) materials as lightsource
support of face me components

these are some features that make Indigo such a wonderfully simple, but mighty tool.

is there any (free?) biased renderer with the same fast workflow that gives you as much control as Indigo does? would be very interesting - from time to time waiting 10 hours or longer for an image to clear up is a bit unnerving

Stinkie

Shall we return this thread to it's "rightful owner"? We are getting somewhat carried away.

kwistenbiebel

I have no problem with the render engine chit-chat. Always interesting to share thoughts don't you think?
(Stinkie regrets having bought Maxwell for a 1000 euro, while Indigo does better for zip ....sorry for me having a ball. I just can't resist.)

By the way, I bought Fryrender half a year ago..so I am to pitty as much as you.
(It is not bad software though. the same goes for Maxwell......but when you compare it price wise to Indigo, ...).

Stinkie

@kwistenbiebel said:

I have no problem with the render engine chit-chat. Always interesting to share thoughts don't you think?
(Stinkie regrets having bought Maxwell for a 1000 euro, while Indigo does better for zip ....sorry for me having a ball. I just can't resist.)

By the way, I bought Fryrender half a year ago..so I am to pitty as much as you.
(It is not bad software though. the same goes for Maxwell......but when you compare it price wise to Indigo, ...).

Indigo? Better? In some respects, yes. In others, no. At least for me.

a) Maxwell references textures externally. (Or however you say that in Eengleesh.) Hence: your SU model doesn't get heavy and hard to manage due to high res textures. (And I need those.)

b) Maxwell's slightly better on picking up fine details. (Need that too.)

c) Maxwell has Multilight. (Cannot do without it.)

I simply have little choice.
I wholeheartedly agree, though, that Indigo's a truly excellent app. And SkIndigo I deeply love.

kwistenbiebel

I agree on b) and c).
Don't know about a) though.

I was only joking around as you probably know
In good hands, Maxwell can be a marvelous tool.

Whaat

@unknownuser said:

a) Maxwell references textures externally. (Or however you say that in Eengleesh.) Hence: your SU model doesn't get heavy and hard to manage due to high res textures. (And I need those.)

Next beta version of SkIndigo will have this feature.

@unknownuser said:

b) Maxwell's slightly better on picking up fine details. (Need that too.)
I disagree. Use MLT and set your MNCR value higher and you will start to see new details..

@unknownuser said:

c) Maxwell has Multilight. (Cannot do without it.)

I'll give you that one.. Hopefully, Ono will implement this feature soon.

We miss you on the Indigo forums, Stinkie! Come back to Indigo!!

kwistenbiebel

Damn, I failed the multiple choice test.
Whaat is soooooo smart.

I didn't know MLT was crisper and I never tangled before with that MNCR value . I always left it to the default 500. Must try. Thanks for the tip.

Stinkie

@kwistenbiebel said:

I was only joking around as you probably know
In good hands, Maxwell can be a marvelous tool.

I know you were. I still choose to feel insulted. You may call that my feminin side.

@whaat said:

@unknownuser said:

a) Maxwell references textures externally. (Or however you say that in Eengleesh.) Hence: your SU model doesn't get heavy and hard to manage due to high res textures. (And I need those.)

Next beta version of SkIndigo will have this feature.

Couldn't you have told me that before I spent € 1000? Seriously, that's great news!

@whaat said:

@unknownuser said:

b) Maxwell's slightly better on picking up fine details. (Need that too.)
I disagree. Use MLT and set your MNCR value higher and you will start to see new details..

Good tip, thanks!

@whaat said:

@unknownuser said:

c) Maxwell has Multilight. (Cannot do without it.)

I'll give you that one.. Hopefully, Ono will implement this feature soon.

We're all hoping the same. If he implements such a funtion, Indigo will blow Maxwell and Fry out of the water.

@whaat said:

We miss you on the Indigo forums, Stinkie! Come back to Indigo!!

lol. I still use it. Just not that frequently these days, though, as I'm learning how to use Maxwell. But I sure as hell gonna keep using it. I actually enjoy that app.

kwistenbiebel

When multilight arrives, things are going to get hot for the commercial ones.
Maxwell knows it needs to stay ahead and now is going to introduce a completely refreshed sky system.
I love it, the way competition works

Stinkie

@kwistenbiebel said:

When multilight arrives, things are going to get hot for the commercial ones.

Indeed! Oooh, I'm gonna have a lot of fun when (and if) Ono implements ML.

For now ... externally referenced texure maps. Yum ... (Grazie, Whaat.)