Hi Charly:

It is really good to hear from you again ....

At the moment, I am keen to see how a series of equally-sized modules would fit into the proposed macromodel. [This being the far more complex "double winged" and "double ringed" structure modeled on page 1]. I do (with the utmost of respect) believe that we are seemingly becoming unduly "bogged down" with all of this emphasis on process. I fully understand (from both you and mac1) that these are (quite understandably) vitally important (real world) engineering principles. However, I am looking at this issue from the (virtual world) medical educational perspective - where all these clinical facilities (and their component functional structures) will be labelled and fully explained (but most likely in less professional engineering terms) to the user ....

The 110m x 22m unit (which can easily be converted to a clinic) plan includes (imho) all the major functional structures required for both of these clinical facilities (independent of their clinical subdisciplines) to function (optimally). Maybe (with the passage of time and the considered expert input of a super-specialist hospital designer) the design can possibly be further fine-tuned. However, we do have something "concrete" with which to work and move forward ....

For various reasons, I am growing increasingly keen (desperate) to move forward with this aspect of our much larger project. [You are already in possession of the extensive list of clinical disciplines and clinical subdisciplines that will be housed within the main THC. We surely have the framework to attempt to push forward with this now ....

I strongly urge you and mac1 (as well as anyone else who has the time and inclination to become involved) to assist me with the ongoing development of this model. Admittedly (from the viewpoint of both of your professional training) we will be approaching this task "back-to-front". Please put these concerns aside for a while and see how we can "move forward" with this exercise. We will often be "flying by the seat of our pants" but I believe that we already have a sufficiently strong foundation upon which to build ....

Would the two of you be prepared to work together with me? The time zone difference between the two of you could be made to work strongly in our favour ....

Each clinical facility is currently envisaged as 110m in length and 22m in width. Separated by a 6m wide central passageway, these parallel modules (for want of a better term) permit a 50m wide wing.

Maybe there is a suitably skilled and adventurous modeler who might be prepared to assist me in developing a conceptual version of the proposed macro THC model by examining how to lengthwise accommodate a series of these modules (together with cross passageways for access) into the complex symmetrical design .... ??

Hello mac 1:

I have sent you a PM largely agreeing with your sentiments and requesting possible assistance. Perhaps we might be able to "take things a bit further" ....

[Btw: I would love to hear from you again "Charly2008" .... ].

Any other possible takers?

Charly:

Please let me know (possibly via PM) whether you have had any luck with viewing the above files and what you think of them.

I really need your ongoing assistance if you are sufficiently interested to assist me with this extremely ambitious design ....

Hi Charly

Herewith are attached the two 3DS Max files exported as two 3ds files ....

A zipped 3ds file

A zipped 3ds file

Sorry for the bump - but hopefully someone might possibly be interested in doing something with the attached files and slowly pulling this project forward ....

Dear SketchUcation readers

Please view this separate (albeit potentially duplicate) thread in conjunction with my original (main) thread requesting assistance with the ongoing development of a (fairly) complex symmetrical Teaching Hospital design:

http://www.forums.sketchucation.com/viewtopic.php?t=38146

It has been suggested to me (via a PM) that I should consider contacting Schools of Architecture regarding the possibility of developing the above linked THC (Teaching Hospital complex) design as a form of theoretical research exercise. I do have a contact who is a lecturer at my local university (University of Cape Town) but have thus far not managed too much success with this initiative. Unfortunately (as per most things in my country - South Africa) our faculties are generally operating with minimal staffing numbers ....

Therefore I was wondering whether anyone reading this thread (or any of their professional network) might possibly have any contacts within some of the US-based Schools of Architecture that just might be interested in actively pursuing this project (as I know nothing about the US system)?

I fully realize that this request (initiative) represents an extremely "long shot" but am nonetheless hoping that the potential creative (and technical) challenges involved in attempting to create this scale of macro-structure combined with the social upliftment implicit in our project (please refer to page 2 in my original thread for further details) just might elicit a favourable response ....

With kindest regards

Jeremy

One might need to initially import the attached (zipped) 3ds Max 2008 file/s into SketchUp version 6 in order to obtain a functional SU file which can then presumably be updated to the latest version of SU.

If anyone is genuinely interested in becoming voluntarily involved in this potentially most meaningful project (by taking the attached file/s to the next level of functionality), please PM me. Although this forum is an excellent resource for exchanging ideas and work files, it will probably prove much easier to ultimately develop an e-mail based "relationship" outside of this venue ....

I truly look forward to receiving some feedback - either in this thread or via a PM ....

Zipped copy of latest 3ds Max 2008 THC (old style) design

Zipped copy of a slightly earlier 3ds Max 2008 THC (old style) design

Zipped copy of 3ds Max 2011 proposed THC typical ward design

Brodie:

We possess an excellent private healthcare system that serves the less than 20 per cent of the population that can afford it. Sadly (as previously intimated) the public healthcare system is meant to service the remaining 80+ per cent of the population (including virtually all our historically disadvantaged communities). Therefore it is not too difficult to see the huge disparity that presently exists between the private and the public sectors with respect to the quality of services offered.

As stated in my PM, this regrettable but inescapable fact is one of the main reasons that motivates my interest in this project ....

I suppose that there are two potential areas in which you or any future volunteer could work:

In developing a series of related outlines for the main categories of individual clinical facilities (such as clinics/outpatients departments, units/wards, clinical diagnostic laboratories, etc.). I already have a fairly good outline for a unit/ward in Google SketchUp (previously developed by a volunteer architect) that could hopefully be further refined.

(In many respects I now hesitate to ask) - but in developing an outline for the main THC. As previously mentioned, I have a less complex version of it in (iirc) 3ds Max 2008 format. Maybe it could at least somehow be used to showcase our still rather bland and basic product?

In many respects, I need further advice as to how precious voluntary architectural services could be best used to advance our project which is (in itself) a genuine attempt to uplift (the healthcare knowledge of) historically disadvantaged communities.

We really do need as much assistance as we can obtain ....

Brodie:

Although the healthcare system is presently somewhat theoretical and idealized (one has to start somewhere), I am trying extremely hard to base it upon the local (anything but idealized) system. I live in Cape Town (South Africa) where healthcare service delivery is in a major crisis. To state it somewhat bluntly, there are way too few healthcare facilities (especially at the primary level), far too few healthcare professionals (workers) and (correspondingly) way too many patients. Apart from anything else (and I freely admit that this is potentially extremely naive), I strongly feel that local people should know what is considered as appropriate (not even ideal) to their needs ....

Lets just say that the local healthcare system is severely damaged ....

As for the amount of user interactivity offered. That will obviously (as always) dependent upon the amount of voluntary assistance that I can obtain in this regard. I would certainly strongly desire the ability for the user to be able to literally walk through the various healthcare facility models. I feel that this would not only add immensely to the overall value of this application (as presently perceived) but also potentially provide multiple avenues for future expansion ....

[At present separate rooms depicting the huge number of individual clinical facilities are perceived. There will obviously only be a handful of template designs (mainly for each type of facility). They will be separately linked to the Schematic World Map but will obviously not be interlinked to each other within a separate main THC (SH or PHC clinic) model. A separate main THC (SH or PHC clinic) model (as a replacement for the various healthcare facility images) would surely represent the proverbial "Royal Road" ....].

Btw: Verisimilitude will be key to this project. However (for the reasons stated above), I have little reason no wish to replicate the conditions prevalent within our public healthcare system (although it could be ultimately be possible to "chop-and-change" the number and quality of existing healthcare service facilities) in order to simulate different types of service delivery ....

I strongly feel that this information should be freely available to the public - especially to the school going children of historically disadvantaged people who still live under a heavy burden of inadequate housing and disease. As I am currently unemployed (and looking after my 88 year old Alzheimer's affected mother in-between working on this project), I do intend to try to seek sponsorship (both personal and for the project) once something more meaningful (i.e. more content) has been created ....

Hello Brodie

Thank you so much for your latest reply.

You are indeed asking some hugely relevant questions that most definitely need to be adequately addressed. I am (at the very least) looking to develop a freeware healthcare education programme initially targeted at local high school students interested in pursuing a career within the Healthcare Sciences (although it should also appeal to anyone with an interest in the structure and function of a modern healthcare system).

The flagship of this project will undoubtedly be the main Teaching Hospital complex (THC) because of its sheer size and complexity due to the wide range of clinical facilities contained within it. At the moment (largely due to its enormous size), it is being depicted in an entirely abstract fashion within our Schematic World Map.

Each of the yellow vertical columns below the image of Groote Schuur Hospital (24 + 22) represents a specific clinical discipline based upon 18 anatomical systems. Each individual striped tile featured within each of these 46 columns represents a specific clinical subdiscipline. Each clinical subdiscipline will generally consist of seven or eight clinical facilities. Therefore there is a titanic amount of detail contained within the main THC.

Each clinical discipline, clinical subdiscipline and clinical facility will be described and explained to the user. This might only represent the beginning of the educational process.

While (in some respects) the abstract schematic approach might potentially work better, I am convinced that the use of suitable (preferably high quality) architectural models would serve to greatly enhance the quality and ultimately success of the envisaged product. I would be most happy to actively discuss all relevant ways of upgrading our purely schematic application into something far more striking.

Above is an earlier version of our Schematic World Map showing the central position of our main THC. There will be eight much smaller Secondary Hospitals (SHs) positioned around it. Each SH will have multiple Primary Healthcare (PHC) clinics situated around them.

Even at the most basic level, a degree of interactivity between these various healthcare facilities is envisaged. At a more advanced level, various healthcare variables could be added in order to hugely enhance this ability.

I am not too sure whether this diatribe adequately answers your "WHY" - although it does possibly add somewhat to the "WHAT" ....

Sorry for the bump - but are there any possible "takers" out there?

Especially the most recent correspondents or someone viewing this already fairly prolonged thread for the first time.

Mitcorb and Brodie:

Thank you so much for your replies.

I am hoping to eventually develop a healthcare system simulator that will feature the main THC as its centerpiece. It will also contain a fairly detailed (schematic at the moment) map that will also feature 8 Healthcare Regions (HRs). Each HR will house a much smaller Secondary Hospital (SH) which could also be modeled. Each HR will also contain 40 suburbs. Each suburb will house a fairly small primary healthcare (PHC) clinic which could also be modeled.

The main THC is envisaged to consist of a wide variety of clinical sub/disciplines. They will each contain a largely standardized selection of clinical facilities (including clinics, units, laboratories, etc.). Therefore there will most definitely be the need to incorporate all of these structures (circa 2000 of them) into the massive THC model.

Each one of these clinical facilities will consist of various appropriate components (reception, doctor's room, nurses station, etc.). Therefore a fair amount of detail will be required in order to successfully include all of these important components. Just how much largely depends upon the willingness of my volunteers to continue working with this massive project ....

As earlier suggested, this exercise should provide the jaded professional (whose free flowing designs are invariably plagued by financial constraints) the opportunity of finally fully exercising their creativity in order to develop the complex of their dreams. This freedom represents a major opportunity to create something really special - even if it is eventually achieved by "committee" ....

Is anyone "in" ....

I think that there is a major misunderstanding here ....

This is never going to be a REAL WORLD structure but rather a VIRTUAL WORLD structure that will house a wide variety of clinical (not just mental healthcare) facilities. It will serve as the centerpiece for my proposed freeware healthcare education application. Therefore this THC model will be free of the usual budgetary restraints that tend to characterize the equivalent real world structures. Consequently, it should prove possible to indulge in some major creativity - the sort of creativity that is generally not permitted in real life structures ....

Perhaps someone would like to have this element of freedom to explore various exciting options ....

Bjorn:

Thank you so much for your THC model which most definitely details my underlying concept. I certainly both understand and appreciate your situation - although it would have been great if you could have stayed aboard for a little longer ....

Hopefully there is someone else who might be prepared to run a bit further with Bjorn's model ....

Hopefully the attachment might further serve to add some more much-needed detail to the proposed model. Each of the three outer parts of the double wing will contain two clinical facilities (22 meters wide each) separated by a 6 meter wide main passageway. Therefore each part of the double wing will be 50 meters wide.

Each of the clinical facilities will be 110 meters long. (Each small red dot is a 5 meter marker with the double dots being 10 meter markers). The blue in the centre of double wings is the water feature (large fish pond with fountains) surrounded by stepped levels containing gardens). This should hopefully prove most aesthetically pleasing to patients, staff and visitors alike.

[The total width of each double wing will therefore be circa 125 meters (50m for one wing + 50m for other wing + circa 25m for the water feature)].

The main problem is exactly how long these double wings should be (and how many clinical facilities and separating passages they can contain) to be accomodated on top of the rather fancy parkade design (which is based upon the design of the Cape Town Castle which is basically a Dutch Star Fort).

I envisage the THC model to be designed to hold a series of 22m x 110m clinical facilities. This is possibly where the problems will arise ....

In addition, the original single winged model (created by Sandy Joan Herring) contains several embellishments which are not clearly apparent in the aerial view posted earlier. It would be great if these embellishment could not only be included in a new model but also further developed.

Lets just say that creativity would be hugely encouraged in this regard ....

One important clarification:

The bottom levels upon which the "superstructure" (modeled by Bjorn) sits is actually a 6 level parkade with each level extending circa 3 meters forward of the one positioned above it. This is very similar to the new Groote Schuur Hospital parkade.

There will be a few sweeping staircases linking the levels and leading to the top where the abovementioned "superstructure" is positioned. This is somewhat similar to the entrance to our local Artscape Theatre complex. There will also (of course) be associated escalators on each side of these sweeping staircases and numerous lifts positioned between them along the face of the outer "bastions".

This complex should be highly functional and user-friendly (particularly to the disabled) as it is a major hospital. Hopefully relevant features can be added to the model as it further developed. Therefore multiple input would be gratefully apreciated ....

bjornkn:

Congratulations, you have indeed managed to draw a perfect (basic) outline of what I have envisaged.

I suppose that the local South African architects whom I have approached are not as talented as you. Would you possibly be prepared to further develop this outline that you have seemingly fairly quickly mastered? Perhaps you can contact me via e-mail in this regard.

TIG:

Thank you so much for your input. I started with a pentagon (which is indeed the basic format) but decided to embellish it a little further. When seen at a slightly different angle, the three concentric rings look a little like an opening flower ....

Maybe you can possibly provide us with further ongoing input?

With kindest regards and much gratitude

Jeremy

Sorry for my delayed reply ....

Yes - there are indeed three single inner rings and five single cruciform wings. The task is to convert them all into double (twin) structures with a superadded water feature separating them.

Yes - the complex geometry (which seems pretty efficient for housing a series of separate clinical facilities (such as wards, etc) will be lost to the user when inside the complex. However, I tend to make prominent use of the aerial view to showcase its geometry.

I hope that you might be prepared to assist us with this major task ....