A few thoughts about the future of this planet
-
@mike lucey said:
Ordinary citizens are more than capable of making informed and sensible judgement votes over their mobile phone on a daily basis if needed.
Ordinary citizens voted for the brexit. Ordinary citizens support Duterte. Ordinary citizens voted for a man who, as president-elect, has stated he 'doesn't need' daily security briefings because he's 'a very smart person'.
Show me an average citizen who's willing to wade through 300 pages of esoteric tax legislation.
@mike lucey said:
He is no fool when it comes to choosing a team!
Really?
Mike Pence has stated condoms don't sufficiently protect people against STD's. David Friedman, Trump's ambassador to Israel, called liberal American Jews 'worse than kapos'. Rick Perry isn't exactly an advocate for gay rights. Andy Puzder is opposed to raising minimum wages. Scott Pruitt, who is to head EPA, is a climate change denier. Ben Carson believes Egypt's pyramids were built by Jesus' stepdad to store grain.
I could go on.
I respect your right to an opinion, Mike, but surely, you're peddling utter nonsense.
-
@mike lucey said:
In the so called 'Western World', Direct Democracy is quite workable now that we have this high level of telecommunication all around us. Ordinary citizens are more than capable of making informed and sensible judgement votes over their mobile phone on a daily basis if needed.
Depends on where these ordinary citizens get that information and if they're willing to research what they read and not take it as gospel. Fake news was a big problem with this election not only on Facebook but all over the internet. I think this set a new precedent for future elections where there will be information overload and be harder to distinguish fact from fiction, very effective.
-
Post deleted due to confluence of the Nile meeting the Rhine at about 05:30 and it being a tuesday somewhere in the galaxy.
-
@mike amos said:
(...) and it being a tuesday somewhere in the galaxy.
It is indeed wise to exercise caution on tuesdays.
It's almost tuesday again. Godspeed.
-
@stinkie said:
I respect your right to an opinion, Mike, but surely, you're peddling utter nonsense.
The cases you bring up just prove to me that ordinary people don't like the direction the establishment are taking them.
The EU elites won't and don't accept referendum results of the people if the result does not suit their agenda. Brexit was voted for by the majority of UK citizens because they wanted to run their own country and make their own laws. I expect a close run election in France next year and there are a number of other EU member states that are on the fence when it comes to total fiscal union. The euro is a disaster as one shoe does not fit all.
As regards Trump and his thus far administration choices. He is an 'outsider', a very wealthy outside but nevertheless an outsider that will more than likely rock the boat. He is by no means the perfect president but if he implements a fraction of his campaign promises he will swing things around for the average middle class US citizen.
The money brokers are somewhat stunned with the Trump election and are probably wondering what they can do to control him short of a bullet as has been the case in the past on a number of occasions.
As regards his team members I have not fully studied most of them. However Pence's great-grandmother came from Doonbeg, Co Clare, my home county so he can't be all that bad!
Its not his team members ideologies that matter, its his ideologies and he is well known for taking the 'You're Fired' option.
-
@mike lucey said:
He is by no means the perfect president but if he implements a fraction of his campaign promises he will swing things around for the average middle class US citizen.
Depends on what you read. From where I sit, it looks like plutocracy and kleptocracy all rolled into one...
(billionaire cabinet appointments, massive Trump organization conflict of interests, with children and spouses execrising undue influence.) bad news in my estimation. Don't even get me started on the climate change denial that will run rampant. I want to have a habitable planet to pass on to my children. -
@mike lucey said:
The cases you bring up just prove to me that ordinary people don't like the direction the establishment are taking them.
You're circumventing my point.
@mike lucey said:
The EU elites won't and don't accept referendum results of the people if the result does not suit their agenda.
Really?
@mike lucey said:
Brexit (...)
There you are.
@mike lucey said:
He is by no means the perfect president but if he implements a fraction of his campaign promises he will swing things around for the average middle class US citizen.
How, exactly? Do be precise.
@mike lucey said:
As regards his team members I have not fully studied most of them.
And yet you said Trump's no fool when it comes to choosing a team.
@mike lucey said:
Its not his team members ideologies that matter (...)
Are you saying their respective ideas/ideologies won't have any effect on the Trump administration's policies? If so, how so? And if that's not what you're saying, what are you saying?
@mike lucey said:
(...) its his ideologies (...)
What are those, precisely?
@mike lucey said:
(...) he is well known for taking the 'You're Fired' option.
Richard Dean Anderson is well known for his ability to fix just about anything with chewing gum.
Politics is more complex than -thoroughly scripted- 'reality' television. What parliaments do, is infinitely more complex than televoting for your 'Britain's Got Talent' contestant of choice.
Differences of opinion notwithstanding: merry christmas and a happy new year.
-
Trump and his appointee's have a track record of knowing how to make money, having a grounding in that will potentially mean they are better placed to work for the people when it comes to running a large corporation AKA a government.
Cut out the dead wood and remove the unfeasibly large "fringe benefits" that seem to be found in the run of the mill government. He has another benefit, he is not from the same bipartite/tripartite clique that has been running his country for a shed load of years, a bit like the same variety of clique we have in the UK and most other nations on this planet. Have you noticed how career politicians end up loaded (compared to the rest of us) and some even get considered by the clique and themselves as pseudo royalty?
As for the EU it is more of a destabilising influence, mainly because they are too big for their own socks. This will when it finds the next set of shocks be seen as the blundering, even bigger failure to communicate it really is. A standing European ARMY FCOL!!!!!!!!! The EU we in the UK signed up for was a TRADING PARTNERSHIP which is where the whole thing got off the ground with varieties of the European Free Trading Association. Look at it now! Does anyone here want the EU to sleep walk us into a WAR?
Look at the various military cooperation's like the Tornado and Typhoon, late, over budget and invariably castrated to fit in with reality of trying to get the things into any kind of service. Time we got back to basics and got rid of the idiots riding on the gravy train. This goes for the so called civil servants too. We cannot possibly do things efficiently, we never have so we are not going to do so now seems be the way governments WANT things to go. -
@mike amos said:
Trump and his appointee's have a track record of knowing how to make money, having a grounding in that will potentially mean they are better placed to work for the people when it comes to running a large corporation AKA a government.
Unfortunately, it is more like a new bunch of weasels in for self-enrichment. Their policies will definitely will NOT be in the interest of "the people" (see for example proposed tax cuts for the super-wealthy, infrastructure moneys to large corporations, financial deregulation to benefit Wall Street, the list goes on.)
-
Stinkie,
The Irish people voted 'No' to two EU Treaties. They were then frightened and bullied into a 'yes' vote on both referendum re-runs. This was also the case with other member states.
As regards the 'Brexit' vote. The UK was not a full member of the EU as they stuck with their Pound Sterling. It looks to me that as the EU could not bring them fully into the fold they are not too worried about them leaving.
As regards how I think Trump will go about raising the standard of living for middle America. I thought that should have been obvious with his nomination of Rex Tillerson for Secretary of State. This move looks to be a way of vastly reducing the $1,000,000,000,000 annual military industrial complex budget. This should go a long way to upgrading US infrastructure, building schools, hospitals etc.
You might read this article for further insight as to what is happening,
'US Aims to Break Russia With Arms Race'
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/46103.htm -
If we are to consider the new weasels as doing nothing for the people, how is that different from the current crop? How do we know when politicians are lying? They are ALWAYS lying, simples. The clean sweep from the broom will be at worst, the same as the current broom, NOT worse.
Mike, the article left me seeing two potentials. I hope the corporate military juggernaut that is the USA can be turned around and I also hope the EU can sort out the major issues that are turning it into such a waste of breath, I really do. With a bit of luck we can shuffle off this mortal coil leaving the planet just a little better than we found it but sadly most are too blind, self interested and stupid to care and as a Trekkie THAT is what bothers me the most. -
@mike lucey said:
As regards how I think Trump will go about raising the standard of living for middle America. I thought that should have been obvious with his nomination of Rex Tillerson for Secretary of State. This move looks to be a way of vastly reducing the $1,000,000,000,000 annual military industrial complex budget.
If they can seriously take on the military-industrial complex, I'm all for. I'm just afraid they are feeding from the same trough: private profit, public risk... risking the full faith and credit of the US for personal enrichment. I guess time will tell.
-
@mike amos said:
If we are to consider the new weasels as doing nothing for the people, how is that different from the current crop?
I want my weasels in there dammit! But seriously - that's why I supported Bernie Sanders, and there are people like Elizabeth Warren who do take stands against entrenched interests.
-
@mike lucey said:
The Irish people voted 'No' to two EU Treaties. They were then frightened and bullied into a 'yes' vote on both referendum re-runs. This was also the case with other member states.
There was diplomatic pressure from France and Germany on Irish politics. Which is a long way from the 'Irish people' as a whole being 'bullied'. And certainly no-one was forced to vote either way. As far as I know, the EU doesn't send menacing brownshirts to polling stations.
@mike lucey said:
As regards the 'Brexit' vote. The UK was not a full member of the EU as they stuck with their Pound Sterling. It looks to me that as the EU could not bring them fully into the fold they are not too worried about them leaving.
Sigh. This is sheer sophistry.
@mike lucey said:
I thought that should have been obvious with his nomination of Rex Tillerson for Secretary of State. This move looks to be a way of vastly reducing the $1,000,000,000,000 annual military industrial complex budget.
During his campaign, Trump advocated raising the military budget. Maybe the Donald was having a laugh?
EDIT:
Team Trump ...
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/dec/29/carl-paladino-racist-obama-comments-will-not-resign
EDIT 2:
Trump and the common man ... Watch 'You've Been Trumped'. I did -my blood's still boiling.
-
@stinkie said:
There was diplomatic pressure from France and Germany on Irish politics. Which is a long way from the 'Irish people' as a whole being 'bullied'. And certainly no-one was forced to vote either way. As far as I know, the EU doesn't send menacing brownshirts to polling stations.
Ah, so according to your logic, its acceptable to have not one but two referendum re-runs when a 'yes' vote was required and a 'no' vote was delivered. If the Irish had voted 'no' a second time would there have been third re-runs?
'No' means 'No' in my vocabulary but it seems it means re-run for a 'yes' in the EU's elitists eyes.As regards my take on Brexit is concerned, a "Sigh. This is sheer sophistry" answer goes nowhere in convincing me otherwise.
@stinkie said:
During his campaign, Trump advocated raising the military budget. Maybe the Donald was having a laugh?
As regards Trumps comments on the military budget. This is what he actually said,
“I’m gonna build a military that’s gonna be much stronger than it is right now,” the real- estate-mogul-turned-tautological-demagogue said on Meet the Press. “It’s gonna be so strong, nobody’s gonna mess with us. But you know what? We can do it for a lot less.”
I think his last sentence in that statement explains what I meant when I talked about cutting the budget. He has commented on heavy costs and massive budget overruns also in the sector. By getting 'value for money' this in effect will bring down the budget and in return more can be spent on other important things.
As regards some of his team's members PCness goes! People tend to be nasty sometimes and this will not change.
I think Trump's actions in Scotland were disgraceful. He should have done his homework before buying the land and developing the golf course. He clearly did not take into account the feelings of the residents that wished to remain in-situ and not sell out to him.
-
@mike lucey said:
Ah, so according to your logic, its acceptable to have not one but two referendum re-runs when a 'yes' vote was required and a 'no' vote was delivered.
I said nor implied that. Don't put words in my mouth. And again: circumventing my point.
@mike lucey said:
As regards my take on Brexit is concerned, a "Sigh. This is sheer sophistry" answer goes nowhere in convincing me otherwise.
I didn't think it would. But really, what would you have me say?
'The EU is evil! See ... they let the Brits leave!' To my mind, that's simplistic Hineininterpretierung.
@mike lucey said:
By getting 'value for money' this in effect will bring down the budget and in return more can be spent on other important things.
Experts say Trump's plans for the military would add $55 billion to $80 billion to the annual budget.
They could, obviously, be wrong. You seem to be in the know. Do explain, in detail, why they're wrong.
Anyone can make sweeping statements.
@mike lucey said:
As regards some of his team's members PCness goes! People tend to be nasty sometimes and this will not change.
Yeah ... People, eh? Boys will be boys, locker room talk, and all that.
@mike lucey said:
He clearly did not take into account the feelings of the residents that wished to remain in-situ and not sell out to him.
No, clearly he didn't. And he actually took revenge on said residents too. Look it up, if you will.
Watch the film.
You're defending a man who has lied through his teeth for the entirety of his campaign, who has shown deep disdain for women, who has insulted minorities, who has flipflopped on a slew of issues (sometimes even in the course of a single day!), who peddled abject conspiracy theories (the birth certificate thing, the JFK thing ...), who has a record of bankruptcy and even fraud, who has called upon a foreign nation to hack his opponent's e-mails, who says he doesn't need daily security briefings because he's 'really smart', and who belittles/bullies/sues anyone who dares criticize him.
I find that bizarre.
-
@stinkie said:
@mike lucey said:
Ah, so according to your logic, its acceptable to have not one but two referendum re-runs when a 'yes' vote was required and a 'no' vote was delivered.
I said nor implied that. Don't put words in my mouth.
You said,
"There was diplomatic pressure from France and Germany on Irish politics. Which is a long way from the 'Irish people' as a whole being 'bullied'. And certainly no-one was forced to vote either way. As far as I know, the EU doesn't send menacing brownshirts to polling stations."
Yes, there was diplomatic pressure from Germany and more so from France with the visit of their president to Ireland to bully us. As I said, an electorate should only have to vote on an issue once! BTW, I think the 'brownshirts' comment is bordering on flippancy.
I would ask you again if you think its acceptable that the Irish were asked to vote again on the same issue?
@mike lucey said:
As regards my take on Brexit is concerned, a "Sigh. This is sheer sophistry" answer goes nowhere in convincing me otherwise.
@stinkie said:
I didn't think it would. But really, what would you have me say?
Its not for me to advise you what to say except, make your case.
@stinkie said:
'The EU is evil! See ... they let the Brits leave!' To my mind, that's simplistic Hineininterpretierung.
I only call it as I see it. Back in 1973 I voted to join the EEC as I thought open trade was and is a good thing. I have since voted against all Treaties that proposed a more in depth membership. I would not go as far to say "the EU is evil" but I do feel its very undemocratic and is moving more so in this direction.
@mike lucey said:
By getting 'value for money' this in effect will bring down the budget and in return more can be spent on other important things.
@stinkie said:
Experts say Trump's plans for the military would add $55 billion to $80 billion to the annual budget.
They could, obviously, be wrong. You seem to be in the know. Do explain, in detail, why they're wrong.
Anyone can make sweeping statements.
I can only advise what Trump said. I could also ask, do you have the figures / details from the so called 'Experts'.
@mike lucey said:
As regards some of his team's members PCness goes! People tend to be nasty sometimes and this will not change.
@stinkie said:
Yeah ... People, eh? Boys will be boys, locker room talk, and all that.
Have you heard of the saying, 'What goes away, stays away'. I'm a believer, are you?
@mike lucey said:
He clearly did not take into account the feelings of the residents that wished to remain in-situ and not sell out to him.
@stinkie said:
No, clearly he didn't. And he actually took revenge on said residents too. Look it up, if you will.
Watch the film.
I watched the film on TV some time ago, actually before Trump put his name in the hat. As I said, I think Trump's actions in Scotland were disgraceful!
@stinkie said:
You're defending a man who has lied through his teeth for the entirety of his campaign, who has shown deep disdain for women, who has insulted minorities, who has flipflopped on a slew of issues (sometimes even in the course of a single day!), who peddled abject conspiracy theories (the birth certificate thing, the JFK thing ...), who has a record of bankruptcy and even fraud, who has called upon a foreign nation to hack his opponent's e-mails, who says he doesn't need daily security briefings because he's 'really smart', and who belittles/bullies/sues anyone who dares criticize him.
I find that bizarre.
Stinkie,
I feel its you that are making broad sweeping statements. I do not defend Trump only listen to what he says he is going to do / implement. As I said, he is far from perfect but he is the choice (under the current system) of the US electorate and deserves a fair shot at, as he says, 'Make America Great Again'.
I have a feeling that Trump's presidency will surprise people in a pleasant way and he will get the required job done. Time will tell.
Mike
-
@mike lucey said:
You said,
"There was diplomatic pressure from France and Germany on Irish politics. Which is a long way from the 'Irish people' as a whole being 'bullied'. And certainly no-one was forced to vote either way. As far as I know, the EU doesn't send menacing brownshirts to polling stations."
I did. I did not say, however, as you implied, that 'its acceptable to have not one but two referendum re-runs when a 'yes' vote was required and a 'no' vote was delivered'.
Allright?
@mike lucey said:
Yes, there was diplomatic pressure from Germany and more so from France with the visit of their president to Ireland to bully us. (...) BTW, I think the 'brownshirts' comment is bordering on flippancy.
I used hyperbole to mock hyperbole.
@mike lucey said:
As regards my take on Brexit is concerned, a "Sigh. This is sheer sophistry" answer goes nowhere in convincing me otherwise.
@stinkie said:
I didn't think it would. But really, what would you have me say?
@mike lucey said:
Its not for me to advise you what to say except, make your case.
I did.
@stinkie said:
'The EU is evil! See ... they let the Brits leave!' To my mind, that's simplistic Hineininterpretierung.
@mike lucey said:
I only call it as I see it.
As do I.
@mike lucey said:
I would not go as far to say "the EU is evil" but I do feel its very undemocratic and is moving more so in this direction.
Agreed. Still, suggesting the EU let the UK out because 'they could not bring them fully into the fold' borders on conspiracy thinking, in my opinion.
@mike lucey said:
I can only advise what Trump said. I could also ask, do you have the figures / details from the so called 'Experts'.
'Do allow me, Stinkie, to swiftly shift the burden of proof.'
@mike lucey said:
As regards some of his team's members PCness goes! People tend to be nasty sometimes and this will not change.
@mike lucey said:
I'm a believer, are you?
Absolutely. I believe in not turning a blind eye.
@mike lucey said:
I do not defend Trump (...)
Noted.
@mike lucey said:
I have a feeling that Trump's presidency will surprise people in a pleasant way and he will get the required job done. Time will tell.
Er, okay.
Agree to disagree?
-
Yep! -
Cool.
Happy New Year.
Advertisement