Twilight Render - Challenge
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Dave, Take a deep breath and step away from the keyboard
On a serious note try not to get to frustrated.
I'm no expert at this either. I remember having days I wanted to jab pencils in my head sitting at my keyboard trying
figure this stuff out. I've been messing about and tweaking settings and such. Posting another pic of a "rocks glass". Was going to tweak on your model but I'm still working in SU2015. If you'd like I'll post my rocks glass model so you can get in and check out how the materials and sun is set up.
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is your index of refraction too high Dave? It looks like extremely thick glass (even though we know it is not)
keep going!! You'll nail it soon.
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@tuna1957 - Thanks for your reply. Yes, I would like for you to share your model. I think I am missing something very basic but I do not know what it is.
@olishea - Yes, the IOR setting for the glass was too high. I set it lower but I am still doing something very basic wrong.
I have another question for anyone looking at this that uses Twilight. When I use the template to set the texture of the liquid in the glass, SketchUp reverses the faces of the liquid group. Is that supposed to happen?
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Dave, I'll post the model next day or so. Haven't had the "faces" change when working in TW. I will say SU can get a little crazy with face orientation sometimes while I'm modeling. Never an issue when setting textures in TW ?
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@Alvis - I really like this. My favorite is #4 (counting from the right). I downloaded your model and will try to understand it. I got an error because it is missing the background image. The background in your images does not match what I am seeing in SU but that is probably related to the error in not finding the background image.
Now I would like to understand the differences in the settings between the 4 images you posted. The only way I got the wine to show up with any red in the glass (in my image - not yours) was to go to an external render and then I lost the wine color in the shadow.
Just to let everyone know I have not completely given up, here is my latest attempt.
OK - One big thing I learned in this was that I was not paying attention to the shadow settings in SU because I never use them in the work I do. That helped a lot. Still a lot of experimenting to get this far. What bothers me most is not necessarily that the image is not the greatest in the world but rather that I do not seem to be picking up on some of the elementary things needed to do good rendering.
In another thread I did try some building renders with section cuts and hiding some walls but doing something like this wine glass is totally throwing me off. http://sketchucation.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=15%26amp;t=64285
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Dave , Posting the "rocks glass" model. You'll be able to check out materials and sun settings I used . It's a simple set up but gives a nice render on easy low through easy medium+ . Have one scene set up. Hope it's helpful.
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@tuna1957 - Thanks for sharing. I think I have learned a couple of things in this but I am still doing something wrong. A couple of things I noticed though is that you have a custom preset and you have a template that I do not have. I saw Glass::Water. I do not have that in my settings......
I took my glass and pasted it into your skp file and then tried to set my glass like yours but there is still something wrong. I cannot see the color of the wine properly though my glass (I emulated your settings for my glass).
I am also attaching the SU file that has both of our glasses in it. Maybe you can figure out what the heck I am messing up.
rocks glass dave c dave.skp -
Dave the stem looks nice. Not sure what is happening in the base. (also not sure what vessel you are working on / talking about). DL'd the file. Later.
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Dave , Here's your fixed model back. Most of your problems were in the model itself. Biggest issue was your glass and your wine were each in separate groups and the wine didn't line up with the inside surface of the glass. When you move the wine shape back inside the glass, once it's lined up proper you explode the group and then intersect the faces. What you ended up with was 3 layers of glass were you should only have 2. Also had stray geometry between
the glass layers that needed erased. Unsoftened the outside rim of the glass. It was causing weird artifacts in the render. I think if 2 faces get real close together it makes the render engine a little crazy. If you want a rounded rim draw it in when your making your template, don't try and get it just by soft & smooth. Redrew the top of the base, you were missing a bunch of faces were the stem and base meet.Last but not least you had a lot of back faces were you should have had front faces. I changed the color of the wine in both just cause I felt like it. Didn't change anything in Twilight. You should be able to plug and play and get a nice result. Also will post render. 05 - medium+ , took 49 seconds.
Almost forgot , one more thing. You should increase your segment count when you draw your circles. Things will look a lot smoother. FYI the rocks glass was drawn with 64 segments.
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ooops..... Forgot something. If your wondering why the saved renders look a little dark around the edges. I had been fooling about with the post pro settings in the rocks glass model and forgot to turn them off before posting the model.
If you want to see the raw render click on post pro ( lower right corner ) in Twilight window and deselect vignette and your renders will look more like the original post of the rocks glass image. sorry....... me bad.......... -
@tuna1957 - I greatly appreciate you taking the time to show me my mistakes. I am embarrassed at all of the mistakes you found. I knew I had not done the intersect but did not realize what the effect was. I am first going to concentrate on drawing the glass correctly then will get back to the rendering. I can see from the file that you sent me that my real problem was the drawing. Had it been correct from the beginning I probably would have done much better with the rendering. I was concentrating on the wrong thing.
Once I get the modeling correct, I want to play around and understand how to generate reflections (i.e. have a reflection of another object on the glass and etc.). I also would like to expand the model to include both a glass and a bottle.
Again, I really appreciate you taking the time to set me on the wright direction. There have been others who have posted some nice images in this thread that I have enjoyed as well but you taking the time to point out my silly mistakes have proved the most valuable to me. I am sure I will wind up with other questions once I get the basics down right.
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Dave, Glad I could be of some help. Don't be embarrassed at making mistakes, that's how you learn. If you could
see some of my early models you'd get a pretty good chuckle. Have been going back through my files recently and
cleaning up early stuff. When I go into monochrome some of them look like checkerboards ! We all started at the
same place so don't let it get you down. Going to give you a few more tips, hope it doesn't freak you out.In your last image you posted, the reason the wine in your glass is black is the back face issue. If you have
reversed faces TW will render them black If you run a test render and you've got objects that look black go to
monochrome and check your face orientation.The stepped red lines in the wine is where the wine group was misaligned and sticking through the side of the
glass. The heavy black effects around the rim of the glass where solved when I unsoftened the outer rim.The comment about segment count in your circles is easily seen in the last render I posted. The segments are very
apparent in the foot of the glass. At least 48 segments would have looked smoother. Might have taken 64.The foot of the glass will look better if it has an upward curve across it's bottom. Only a small part of the foot
actually rests on the table. The wine glass foot is pretty dead flat and is why it's so grey.Make sure you model this kind of stuff BIG. The rocks glass was over 2' tall when i modeled it. Didn't scale down
until all modeling and texturing was finished.Last thing i promise ! Hope you figured out the TW post pro settings I had made in the rocks glass model. Besides
"vignette" being turned on I think I had dialed the exposure down one click. Default is 1.0Well that's it. Hope it's been some help. Glad to do it. Question's are always a good thing ! chuck.
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my test with the glass from dave
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Part of my problem has been with correctly aligning the liquid in the glass before trying to intersect. That my be because I need to scale up and work from there. A few minutes ago (have not scaled up yet) when I applied the template to different materials, the faces reversed in the SU model. I am assuming that may have something to do with things being too small.
Having company today so I might not get back to it until tomorrow. I AM going to figure this out
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Isn't the liquid made from a copy of the glass geometry (which never moves and so needs no alignment?) At what point do you "intersect"?
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@pbacot said:
Isn't the liquid made from a copy of the glass geometry (which never moves and so needs no alignment?) At what point do you "intersect"?
See the post from Pilou on the previous page.
Not exactly sure what you are saying.
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I see. I guess I'd approach it differently. I don't know why the glass and liquid can't be done so that they are already aligned, but OK.
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pbacot, I get what your driving at. There may be an easier way. I've tried different approaches. One thing I
discovered. If the wine surface and inside of the glass aren't isolated by a group when you create the
meniscus and run follow me you lose one row of geometry on the side of the glass. This is right
below the line where the glass side and meniscus join. Then you have a repair job. At least that's what I
had happen during my experiments.Dave , hvanessen , You guys need to check the rocks glass. Look at the difference in the appearance of the sides
of the glass in my renders and yours. It looks like the vertical edges in your models aren't
softened. Almost like their hidden but not softened/smooth. It's like something messed up
passing the file. You need to check that out.good luck and keep experimenting and learning. chuck.
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I just ran through it again. What I did was draw the half profile of the glass and the wine, (for wine it's just adding the center line and surface line including the meniscus profile). I double clicked on each of the two faces making a group each time. I placed the same follow me circle in each group (copy paste in place). And ran follow me for each. Check faces are correct, smooth soften where needed, and check solids. Would that be correct? So you don't have move or align the wine.
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