Can I have a Gripes & Bitchin' for Su 2014 thread?
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@arcad-uk said:
why hasn't that evolved into solid section capability. The component hole cutting tool should have evolved to cut walls with thickness. None of these add any significant bloat they would just provide the basic tools many people would expect.
Two good examples. Why when I cut a section I still see the "innards" --unless I use a plugin to "fix" it myself? The sort of things SU was designed to do. Make pictures of buildings and put windows in the walls. Pretty basic.
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@pbacot said:
Mike,
Someone asked for transparency from software companies. I think John B. is being quite clear. SketchUp is not going to change much. LayOut seems to be getting new features regularly, but it's capabilities are now pretty well defined as well
PeterYou are actually right. I'm blind to what I don't want to believe.
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@arcad-uk said:
I don't think a need for new products is at the root of the disappointment around here. On the basis of the last two releases SU has stopped evolving (I have had a licensed copy since V4). I haven't looked at the wish list recently but I can imagine there are items on there that should be considered more usability / bug fixes than bloatware. My personal pet hate is the LO DWG export which is almost unusable at the receiving end. The SU Pro boolean tools were a major investment so why hasn't that evolved into solid section capability. The component hole cutting tool should have evolved to cut walls with thickness. None of these add any significant bloat they would just provide the basic tools many people would expect.
Unfortunately JB's attitude would suggest the subscription model is as many fear, an excuse to take money without having to demonstrate the benefits of upgrading. I guess we are unlikely to see even basic chamfer and fillet commands added anytime soon in SU and we will be left to rely upon the hero's of the plugin community to continue providing even the basics...
I can see completely where you are coming from Trevor, like me it's from an architectural use. I still welcome the Faster Shadows improvement also the update to Ruby 2.0 standards which I trust will be leveraged by the great plugin community we have to create some new gems .... 'basic chamfer and fillet commands'
While SketchUp has from v1 had leanings towards providing easy use for building / architectural design primarily on the modeling front (3D) and to a certain extent straight 2D output, the latter more so with the help / use of the many great plugins we now have and remain coming on stream, I think the application has to remain true to its core use, that it remain as a good 'all rounder' for general 3D work to meet the needs of all types of designers, professionals and hobbyists.
I do however still believe that there is a strong market out there for the taking with SketchUp Pro Architectural and possibly SketchUp Pro Engineering.
I imagine that there is only so much a fairly small team of TSU programmers can achieve. More programmers would require more financial resources and this must be difficult to justify for an end product that a HUGE portion of it is given away for free and the paid for portion is pitched quite low.
A thought! Crowdfunding is growing exponentially. Kickstarter hits $1 billion in pledges
http://edition.cnn.com/2014/03/03/tech/web/kickstarter-billion-dollars/ More than half its $1B was pledged in the last 12 months alone. $10,266,845 was pledged to the Pebble: E-Paper Watch by 68,929 backers.
Maybe TSU should be looking at the crowdfunding option to grow the SketchUp 'product family'? If just 10% the SketchUcation membership alone were to pledge $750 for SketchUp Pro Architectural, it could generate $1,800,000+. Now that kind of cash could pay for a lot of programmers -
Mike, what makes you think Trimble would relinquish that kind of control? It doesn't seem to me that it's the kind of company that would allow a kickstarter project to take its program in some new direction. That seems way too transparent and open to outside influence...
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUr3XbROoA8#t=142
The new SU2014 features demonstrated by french users
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@mike lucey said:
I think the application has to remain true to its core use, that it remain as a good 'all rounder' for general 3D work to meet the needs of all types of designers, professionals and hobbyists.
I do however still believe that there is a strong market out there for the taking with SketchUp Pro Architectural and possibly SketchUp Pro Engineering.
I don't disagree with the first bit, what hacks me off is I'm paying a subscription for software which has glaring problems and much potential to improve functionality without materially changing the front end; yet we are being fed this line of nothing is really going to change... what am I paying for?
At risk of repeating myself, if there was any vision at Trimble Towers the core SU we all know and love would be starting to work smarter and getting fixed. I would imagine the introduction of IFC tags was a nod to collaboration; that time and effort would have been much better spent on fixing the existing function allowing users to exchange DWG files. Equally there are many basic design functions missing in SU but this time we got fobbed off with improvements to 2D arcs and shadows, the latter of which I doubt most users would notice any difference.
As for paying for SU Pro Architectural, that's unlikely to happen. If SU basic lacks the basics then what hope is there for a competitive and properly functioning Architectural or Engineering version? Seriously, there are more mature and faster evolving products out there that would more likely receive my cash based on the current attitudes to developing SU.
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Just stumbled across this... http://help.sketchup.com/en/article/3000020
Upgrade, Maintenance, and Support program details
New Features: We committed to our customers that we will continue to work on development of new features and functionality. By offering an upgrade, maintenance, and support program, we’re putting the pressure on ourselves to deliver power packed improvements to the SketchUp Pro offering.
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Thanks rv1974 for posting that video. I needed a good laugh.
@andybot said:
Mike, what makes you think Trimble would relinquish that kind of control? It doesn't seem to me that it's the kind of company that would allow a kickstarter project to take its program in some new direction. That seems way too transparent and open to outside influence...
Andy, I am not suggesting Trimble relinquish any kind of control. What I was trying (maybe feebly) to suggest was some way to gauge the market and produce a partially market-led product. We now live in a world where it is quite possible for the consumer to heavily interactively influence the types of products and services that companies design / manufacture and deliver for purchase / consumption.
To demonstrate this point in the field we are involved in I would suggest keeping an eye on the CADO Kickstarter fund raising project here, https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/981031266/cadotm-is-computer-aided-design-cad-for-tablet-dev
This future iPad app concept has been floating around for over two years. I imagine many designers are interested in seeing it being fully developed (me included) but I wonder how many of those interested actually put their cash down (pledge).
The CADO Kickstarter project was launched a few days ago and there are 26 days remaining to hit the £50K target. Currently it has 25 backers and £1,009 pledged. I somehow think they may not reach the target as it looks to me that they have not mass emailed interested folks. I only became aware of the particular project while checking out what's new on KS. Anyway it will be interesting to see what happens.
@arcad-uk said:
I don't disagree with the first bit, what hacks me off is I'm paying a subscription for software which has glaring problems and much potential to improve functionality without materially changing the front end; yet we are being fed this line of nothing is really going to change... what am I paying for?
At risk of repeating myself, if there was any vision at Trimble Towers the core SU we all know and love would be starting to work smarter and getting fixed. I would imagine the introduction of IFC tags was a nod to collaboration; that time and effort would have been much better spent on fixing the existing function allowing users to exchange DWG files. Equally there are many basic design functions missing in SU but this time we got fobbed off with improvements to 2D arcs and shadows, the latter of which I doubt most users would notice any difference.
As for paying for SU Pro Architectural, that's unlikely to happen. If SU basic lacks the basics then what hope is there for a competitive and properly functioning Architectural or Engineering version? Seriously, there are more mature and faster evolving products out there that would more likely receive my cash based on the current attitudes to developing SU.
@arcad-uk said:
Just stumbled across this... http://help.sketchup.com/en/article/3000020
Upgrade, Maintenance, and Support program details
New Features: We committed to our customers that we will continue to work on development of new features and functionality. By offering an upgrade, maintenance, and support program, we’re putting the pressure on ourselves to deliver power packed improvements to the SketchUp Pro offering.
Tevor, I see your point about getting good solid value for money when it comes to annual Maintenance costs on SU. I imagine most Pro users feel the same and will either go along or not! They may 'vote with their feet' also.
Would it be a plausible idea for TSU to produce a development Road Map for SU Pro. Maybe the targets / objectives could be decided via polls for Pro Users?
Keeping things 'top secret' is all well and good when there are real gems in the offing but meeting popular 'standard' requests on the other hand could be much more openly advised. It would also keep the paying customer happy even if they had to wait a while for the functions they want / need. As long as its know that the goods and going to be delivered most folks are quite happy to have patience ..... while looking at the 'Progress Chart'.
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I may get lynched for saying this, but I think Layout should be it's own separate program (add-on). If Layout is Trimble's focus, and I think it's obvious that this is where the efforts are being mostly put into, then let the people who use it, upgrade that part of the SketchUp suite. 2013 was a disappointment, but I told myself that 2014 will have to be amazing. They wouldn't put out another stale release, right?
We were all terrified when Trimble acquired SketchUp, and I think it's all being confirmed now. They are looking to create a BIM-like program. Those of us who use it to model or render should probably begin to look elsewhere.
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Free user here so don't feel I have much standing but will try anyway:
It is ironic that many user feel JB is not doing a good job but they themselves , except for few cases, have not been responsible for delivery of major software drops. You view point will change;By its very nature and the time it has been around one cannot expect SU to continue with major changes with each release. Trimble must have long range plans for state of the art new products to keep their business viable or they will gone before long.;
I have a sense over the last few time periods the possible trouble they are in just based on the tenor and substance of question asked in some of the forums. Most are administrative in nature and very few with technical substance. That along with my perception JB has not implemented a disciplined and through regression testing does not give many users a good feeling about SU.( That is not trivial to do because of all the options available). Cases in point: Not long ago many Windows users accused MS of using them as beta testers and the debacle of the MAC support starting at SU8;
In addition there is basic lack of knowledge base capture ( Manny good answers in the forums but search sucks), the user manuals are terrible and there is no effort given to support users with any periodic training sessions ( Talking like Webanair's here).The idea of free user(s) is bringing then along to the point for selling pro version. But just saying here it is, free and its great without effort to make them feel that way will not make many sales;
The idea of crowd funding IMHO is a non started. It is up to Trimble management to have long range plans in place to make SU viable to them business wise or they should get out of it.
Any SCF buyers there ?? -
The select tool seems to have changed in SU2014 - now when I select & drag over an area I get these boxes (much like the 'zoom window' tool). Can't find anything about it in 'What's New' - Is it something new or is something wrong? & if the former... can I turn it off... don't much like it?
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That was originally in SU2013 and they fixed it in SU2013M1.
I don't see it in SU2014
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So any suggestions, Rich? Maybe re-install SU2014? Got all my plugins up & running now, so don't want to mess anything up.
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Since it is a graphical error try tinkering with the OpenGL settings first.
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@mike lucey said:
Keeping things 'top secret' is all well and good when there are real gems in the offing but meeting popular 'standard' requests on the other hand could be much more openly advised.
Base camp rumo(u)r ??? Going to be a few disappointed travellers if SU already peaked with the 2014 release
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@ Rich. re: Open GL settings. Yup! if by 'tinker' you meant just a case of turn-it-off-and-on-again! Bingo! we're off & running. Cheers Rich!
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TINKER def
attempt to repair or improve something in a casual or desultory wayWhile 'tinkering' often works for me, I really should document / take pics / make videos of what I do to get things working again as I have often no idea about what I actually did to get something working again
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Many years ago I spent way too much time upgrading with each and every new bug infested release of AutoCad. AutoDesk conveniently used its users, through AutoCad User Groups to also become its Beta testers, for their SHIT software, while the User also paid the full price. A typical example of American Exceptionalism at work, happens to work, and has made AutoDesk a Billion Dollar company. Yes the Upgrade model still works, even if nothing has been added to the program, each year.
Looks like Trimble is going down the same road. I already see too many users complaining that many things are not working, that used to work in past versions of SU. But there is a solution, ....get off the upgrade Tread Mill. Be happy with whats been working. Why do you want to complicate your life with the latest version and more potential problems?
Sorry Trimble, I'm not going to go down the this road again. Bin der done dat!
And what was so imminently urgent to change the location of the Plugins Folder?
All that shows is a concern to be Windows Registry Complaint. While at the same time causing a lot of grief for SU users where Older Ruby plugins now go.I'm staying with SU 8!
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Archeologists recently discovered what they believe to be some of the earliest examples of rudimentary writing. They were found with the fossilized remains of what appeared to be an early community of Neanderthals. For those that don't remember them they were the species that died out as Homo sapiens became more dominant and adaptable.
Paleolinguists believe they have managed to decipher parts of these cave writings and have released this translation.
We don't need no fancy sharps sticks, these blunt ones have worked fine for ages. -
Conspiracy theory - Trimble buys SU from Google for who knows what, $30mil? Trimble holds on to SU investing very little into development, waits... Trimble sells SU to AUTODESK for $75mil in 2016. Quite the return on investment if you ask me.
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