Plugin Store, Plugins and Premium Membership...
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If Sketch**Ucation** integrate this eCommerce feature into PluginStore they should be rewarded as well with a percentage of all the sales for further development.
@ashscott said:
Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on how you look at it) money is a big motivator. Making it easier for developers to get paid will encourage developers to "push the envelope" even more which will push SketchUp and the whole community forward
The above quote posted here mentions money as a source for motivation to push the envelope and provide the community with polished plugins. This is true but apart form money I think the drive to learn should be the main source of motivation.
This learning factor is sometimes the reason why developers (including myself) offer their plugins for free. Most of my plugins were made possible with the help of other developers and even none developers that provide feedback.
There should be an option to share part of you earnings to the people that contributed to the plugin. This will encourage more teamwork and end up with better & faster product. People don't have to be programers only because a plugin requires more than just code to be good. Here is some example of people that can make plugin better but don't necessarily know how to code ...
- People with good ideas for plugins.
- People with UX design skills.
- People that can make art work for icons & logos.
- People that translate text to other languages.
- People that can make documentation.
- People that can beta test your plugin and report bugs.
- People that recommend your plugin.
- And many more...
For me it would be sad to see developers not to share their knowledge because they want to earn more money with there plugins by hiding their code with SketchUp Scrambler. Or not allowing another developer to make similar plugin by claiming copyright infringement.
Fortunately my experience with the SketchUcation community is been very positive and everyone seems to have the best intention to make SketchUp even better than it already is.
Thanks JQL for bringing this important topic to the table.
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Renderiza,
Thanks for your contribution. You are clearly one of those developers that polishes their simple/complex ideas to any effort... then distribute your work for free! You are not alone here, of course, and that colective effort you guys are putting together is HUGE. Everyone contributes a bit to that, but there seems to be clearly more work from you than from me. That spirit is amazing and Sketchucation managed to create a sucessful environment for development, sharing and knowledge.
The big question for me is how to keep that "open" environment in this community, but also benefit from people that want to and can benefit from their plugin development knowledge. It wouldn't hurt you a bit if besides what you already learn and motivates you, you'd also earn a bit of what the community would manage to give you financially speaking.
Thanks again for your contribution and for your plugins.
JQL
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I think you are still missing the point regarding the purpose of Premium membership, and I feel what you are suggesting would only tear the community apart. People get jealous and annoyed and demanding when they feel it's Us and Them. Already people misconstrue what happens in the premium areas, as you see in the thread you linked to.
Sketchucation should and does make it possible to pay developers through the store, but it shouldn't be seen as the Massive corporate conglomerate selling only to those that are willing to pay. That's what Trimble is for. It is a community that thrives on openness, sharing and participation. It has evolved out of a common interest in development and a thirst for knowledge. It is not a business and the day it becomes one will be the day it starts to die. Premium membership is about helping support the forum so that it can continue to offer an open and honest place for all things sketchup.
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Box,
Thanks for sharing your opinion and though I don't fully agree with you, I definetely share many of your points of view.
@box said:
I think you are still missing the point regarding the purpose of Premium membership, and I feel what you are suggesting would only tear the community apart. People get jealous and annoyed and demanding when they feel it's Us and Them. Already people misconstrue what happens in the premium areas, as you see in the thread you linked to.
The problem with that misconstruction had to do exactly with the way Premium users are being adressed right now. They have access to exclusive parts of the forum - those premium areas - and that is what goes against the fundamental philosophy behind Sketchucation - Full and free access to knowledge and sharing (not only plugins).
What I proposed isn't a system where Premium users would get anything exclusive, but something better, or faster, or free, or just in beta stages, while other users would have to just wait until they could have that access. It's what happened to Plugin Store beta testing stage, so it's happening already. It's like I'm just asking why not extend that to other plugins and make it clear that if you are a Premium User you are imediately elected as beta tester or have like a first user right to plugins.
A thing I consider right now is that there could be also an option for paying to have imediate access to one plugin alone, even if not being a Premium member... but that might be a new idea that I didn't discuss earlier.
@box said:
Sketchucation should and does make it possible to pay developers through the store, but it shouldn't be seen as the Massive corporate conglomerate selling only to those that are willing to pay. That's what Trimble is for. It is a community that thrives on openness, sharing and participation. It has evolved out of a common interest in development and a thirst for knowledge. It is not a business and the day it becomes one will be the day it starts to die. Premium membership is about helping support the forum so that it can continue to offer an open and honest place for all things sketchup.
I'm not saying that, by any means, the things that right now are free, should become payed, and I'm certainly not saying that everything should be payed or Premium. What I'm saying is that plugin developers should be allowed to choose if they would put their new plugins or enhanced versions as Premium users only content, commercial, or free for all. It's a decision that should be made only by them, but that Sketchucation should allow and should create a system more consitent and fair for developers, Premium users and that does not bother every other user.
What seems to me to be dividing the community right now is the exclusive access to Premium Forums. I'm not that interested in having access to those forums, but what the thread seemed to demonstrate (even if TIG rebated it plainly and clearly) is that people are getting the wrong idea from premium users, like it's a private club for hot shots.
Let me say this simply:
You can buy trees, models, textures, tutorials and other stuff at sketchucation. Or you can have a Premium account and have that stuff for free or with good discounts. Nobody is bothered by that and it's clear and simple - Why not extend that to plugins?
What I suggested is that, because plugins are one of the foundations that support this forum, why not go further on this: As plugins are not static stuff, and are evolving continually, why not have a system that makes certain enhancements of plugins, only available to Premium users, and after some time, availble to all... if the developer agrees?
That seems fair to me and not that corporative and capitalistic or over lucrative, though massive is a nice word for discribing what is and should continue to be Skethucation.
I hope I made it clearer now,
Thanks and best regards,
JQL
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There might be some people that have this "Us Against Them" attitude but I have a feeling the majority view premium membership as a way to help SketchUcation grow more than anything.
We all know that time is money and maybe talented developers can't afford to make plugins because they need to provide for their families. Having the community embrace paying a little bit to support developers will have a positive impact. Maybe I am dead wrong and this is the worst idea ever, but we need to give it a shot and take a risk. Lot of mistakes are going to be made, but like it was said before, the willingness to learn is key for this to work.
I will like to make an experiment with a plugin I am currently working on. Not 100% sure how to approach this but I was thinking to test some suggestion JQL posted. Maybe add early access to beta for premium members to see if that motivates people to support SketchUcation by becoming a member(fingers crossed). However the forum topic will be public for everyone to see the progress and also collaborate with ideas. I am little nervous about this but we will see how it goes.
More information soon...
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Oops!
Before publishing the plugin for the experiment I mentioned on the post above, decided to investigate if the idea was already created...Turns out that TIG already has a plugin that accomplished what I had in mind.
When I said lots of mistake were going to be made I didn't realize it was going to be this quickly.
But nevertheless I am glad I found it before taking action because that would of been little more embarrassing.If you were wondering what the idea was here is TIG's plugin Split Donut.
This means I will have to postpone the experiment until I find another idea to work with.
Cheers!
Note: Maybe the code I created can still be useful because it can solve some issues I have with other plugins of mine.
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Renderiza,
No code should be wasted, that's a plugin you should release anyway and probably, with the community feedback, there can be some functions to be added later. You respond very well to suggestions and your plugins gain a lot because of that, without ever loosing their core spirit.
I think there are many suggestions on split face that are very good (I specially like the one from pixero), and maybe this new "split donut" could be added to splitface as an option.
Best regards,
JQL
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Why not raise the premium price a bit and offer 2 or 3 paid plugins.
Every renewal gets one more.
Like a coupon.
Split that with the developers.
I'm for anything that helps. -
@jql said:
No code should be wasted, that's a plugin you should release anyway and probably, with the community feedback, there can be some functions to be added later. You respond very well to suggestions and your plugins gain a lot because of that, without ever loosing their core spirit.
I think there are many suggestions on split face that are very good (I specially like the one from pixero), and maybe this new "split donut" could be added to splitface as an option.
Well you read my mind because the plugin I had in mind that could use this code was FaceSplit!
Already added the new feature to version 1.0.3 which solves the problem it was having with convex faces. Now you can get nice result if there is one inner loop inside face like a window for example. There is still progress too be made because if there is more than one inner loops the face will not be split. This problem also happens with TIG's plugin and it will not be easy to solve.
Pixero's suggestion is very good indeed! Hope to give that one a go very soon.
@jpalm32 said:
Why not raise the premium price a bit and offer 2 or 3 paid plugins.
Every renewal gets one more.
Like a coupon.
Split that with the developers.
I'm for anything that helps.That can be a good idea but SketchUcation will need the support of developers for that to work out.
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Loving the discussion.
@renderiza said:
This is true but apart form money I think the drive to learn should be the main source of motivation.
I would love to share your perspective, it is the way this should function in an ideal world. Unfortunately things aren't ideal and, as any economist will tell you human beings respond to incentives
If we want to push the Sketchup envelope then streamlining the system for getting incentives to the people who make new, exciting and useful things is the most efficient way to do it.
The iOS app store is a prime example.
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