SketchUp 2013 Gripes & Bitchin' ONLY ;)
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@jason_maranto said:
I guess you don't really understand -- I'm trying to wake him from his stupor.
You're right, I don't understand...
Why shouting for a person who obviously isn't here...??So far all the good efforts you have put in this, doesn't seem to have paid off...
The last time "darling" spend his precious time visiting this community was back in March...We're all aware that members of the TSU Team has been lurking in these threads, but perhaps you've managed to scare "darling" away, which is contrary to what you're trying to achieve...
Perhaps a slightly different tactic is needed now...?!
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I don't believe that for a second -- I think he has seen every word I've posted.
If I really did scare him away then he is already a lost cause, and I misread his potential.
As I said though, there is a limited time frame for the validity of this -- and the window is closing rapidly, at which point I will go quiet on the topic again. Striking while the iron is hot is worthwhile, but droning on and on is waste of everyone's time. I've said my piece, he'll have 12 months to put together his response.
In case you are wondering I also have my own critics, and I definitely put effort into responding to their criticism via my work. Talk is cheap, if you've got something to prove you must show it.
Best,
Jason. -
Do bear in mind though that there are two separate parties I am criticising -- Trimble and "darling"... and I do keep them separate in my mind.
My gripes at Trimble (corporate) all have to do with bad licensing/naming/etc. decisions... These are things I can't really hold "darling" accountable for.
On the other hand, the development buck stops at him (as the lead) -- I think he can do much better, and I think he should do much better -- whether he will is the question.
Best,
Jason. -
Lets assume (I know) that there are things within basic Sketchup that need fixing. But basic Sketchup is no longer in the "development stage" it is finished. If you want to keep the development team you have to find something new on which to work. Enter Layout.
They can show a profit from the sales of "Layout" and creating Sketchup Pro and keep paying the programmers to add other new features.The other problem is bug fixes or things that just do not quite work in Sketchup. You cannot show a profit for paying programmers to fix problems once basic Sketchup has been released. Who should pay to fix basic Shetchup, we should. That said, how many hours have we spent trying to get a Sketchup feature or tool to work properly; so we can complete the model or design. I for one, would be will to help fund a programmer whos sole purpose would be to fix the the know problems and improve the overall performance of basic sketchup.
It some point there would be a pay back for the funds spent in faster model creation. The idea is not perfect, but it might be a direction forth checking out.Bob
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@Frederik: PLEASE do not start a flame war.
I, repeat I started THIS thread to be a place for negative bitching, without having the "fanboys" jump on people wanting to air their gripes, and so these gripes would not yank the other thread off topic. (Which they were doing.)
As I said in the first post:
WARNING : Leave now if you don't like to read negative comments about SketchUp !
And... then the other topic will remain mostly bitch free.
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Dan, I have absolutely nothing against Jason or his opinions and I didn't mean to start a flame war...
Please read what I wrote in a previous post in this thread...
All I wanted was/is to make Jason aware that his personal vendetta doesn't seem to lead anywhere, hence he should perhaps try an alternative approach... -
@bob-designer said:
Who should pay to fix basic Shetchup, we should.
honestly, i'd be a happy camper and would gladly pay my upgrade fee if many of the bugs and/or iffy UI stuff was taken care of..
my post in the su9 wishlist thread:
@unknownuser said:
honestly, at this point, i just wish they'd fix some things that aren't (or never have been) working properly..
(i guess most or all of this is mac related but...)• material browser -- sketchup uses the osx color picker but instead of adding its own palette, it hijacks an existing one... the one that displays a list.. and the devs don't allow for a list of materials/colors to be shown so we can only see thumbnails (or hover for a popup which will display the actual name).. fail.
• launch sequence affects the display of our custom toolbar.. if you have a custom toolbar, you have to open another new window after launching in order for the icons to display.. those icons should be present in the first window created..
• this is probably on the ruby writers side but it seems as if sketchup itself could make a sweeping trap to prevent it.. certain plugins will 'do something' to a fresh window which means we can't just close a blank document without being prompted 'do you want to save the changes...?' .. 'as?'
(so this compounded with the prior bullet = immediate frustration upon launching sketchup..)
so hey.. if the user hasn't done something to the file then obviously they don't want to save the changes made..•thumbnails.. come on already.. check out collada files in quick view (select a .dae and push the space bar).. give us that with .skp.. or at the very least, a shot of the model.. 512px minimum if not more.. so what if the file size goes up 100kb or whatever
• the window panels (entity info etc) could use some love.. (but then again, they aren't exactly broken so i guess i'll leave them out of this wish list.. the other stuff is broken though)
• fix the printing.. (and not 'well, use layout for that'.. why?).. the sketchup printing setup is flawed.. bottom line. (for instance, it ignores wether or not a specified printer/paper has borders when doing it's scaling calculations.. it treats everything as if it's a borderless print but then you go to print and it spills out onto multiple sheets even though the sizing/scale are correct for a single page--- amongst a few other things.. too long to list at this point)
i'll probably edit/add to this in a minute but for now...
(add) • full screen-- why exactly hasn't sketchup been hooked up to full screen yet? [edit] oh wait.. that's a wish-- not a fix ..srry
(add) alpbehizeta when appropriate ..(prefs->extensions for instance)
(add) • hook up to osx versioning and autosave already.. it's there for you devs to tie into so do it.. with the apps i use which are tied into the OS regarding this, i haven't lost one single bit of work yet.. even in the event of a crash, the file will save prior to crashing.
i mean, i think my 'real' wishes are too unrealistic and/or in a direction i think the devs are trying to steer clear from.. and i'm cool with that.. i understand.. i still have a lot of uses for sketchup and i'm becoming ok with the idea that 1 app can't do it all..
but the app could certainly use a tidy up of the existing functions/features/controls.. looking back to 2005 or so, there's no way i could of imagined that some of these things would still be present in the app..
can someone explain why these types of things are simply being ignored?
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@unknownuser said:
alpbehizeta when appropriate ..(prefs->extensions for instance)
mission accomplished.....go upgrade
although alpbehizeta....is that a sandwich? maybe it's a new mineral? Or a new kickflip?
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yeah, it's a sandwich.. similar to a BLT except it's lettuce_tomato_bacon instead.
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@unknownuser said:
@bob-designer said:
Who should pay to fix basic Shetchup, we should.
• fix the printing.. (and not 'well, use layout for that'.. why?).. the sketchup printing setup is flawed.. bottom line. (for instance, it ignores wether or not a specified printer/paper has borders when doing it's scaling calculations.. it treats everything as if it's a borderless print but then you go to print and it spills out onto multiple sheets even though the sizing/scale are correct for a single page--- amongst a few other things.. too long to list at this point)
OMG! I got slammed for mentioning this by some cult leaders awhile back.
Printing truly sucks in SU. It's like a leap back 30 years. -
@jpalm32 said:
@unknownuser said:
@bob-designer said:
Who should pay to fix basic Shetchup, we should.
• fix the printing.. (and not 'well, use layout for that'.. why?).. the sketchup printing setup is flawed.. bottom line. (for instance, it ignores wether or not a specified printer/paper has borders when doing it's scaling calculations.. it treats everything as if it's a borderless print but then you go to print and it spills out onto multiple sheets even though the sizing/scale are correct for a single page--- amongst a few other things.. too long to list at this point)
OMG! I got slammed for mentioning this by some cult leaders awhile back.
Printing truly sucks in SU. It's like a leap back 30 years.good point....I'd forgotten about that....I surrendered a long time ago and began printing via Layout instead, but that isn't ideal when I am rushed. Thanks for reminding us...!!
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@unknownuser said:
yeah, it's a sandwich.. similar to a BLT except it's lettuce_tomato_bacon instead.
That was quite funny ... it went by me the first time around.
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@unknownuser said:
aside from that, they're really open to user feedback..
it's just a completely different vibe, you know? .. they want to make something awesome and don't come across as "oh.. you don't know what's best for the user-- only we do" (or whatever)
[it's not so different than the interaction you'll see around here between the
& ... and it's good that way (imo)]To clarify: Jeff's comments above were made in reference to Rhino.
Agreed. Especially considering that McNeel has Pascal Golay on the newsgroup and forum working with users to find solutions to their problems right up to the extent of writing code on the spot. It would be as though SketchUp had someone, officially, on the forum every day, talking directly to users and writing Rubies right then and there to improve the program. Probably not going to happen.
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I created an account here at sketchucation just so I could bitch! let me start with a brief synopsis of my feelings: Sketchup 2013 is a complete embarrassment and a disaster! Almost 3 years and this is what we get? Its not like version 8 was specimen of ambitious software development. Just look at the features that Trimble is touting for this release: numbered pages, dashes in dimensions, copy array in LO, curved leader lines, video export . . . holy cow dung I would be embarrassed to put that in my list of improvements, let alone 5 of 11. Even the big ones are let downs: extension warehouse is nice but merely simplifies functionality I already had and Pattern fills as far as I can tell are just added textures. Supposedly speed in layout is improved, but I may never know if I decide to switch to FormZ. Whats $1000 after you blow $95 on the biggest letdown in recent memory.
-chico
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@chicos said:
I created an account here at sketchucation just so I could bitch!
lol
i guess that's an ok reason to join an internet forum.
welcome! -
@chicos said:
I created an account here at sketchucation just so I could bitch!
-chico
welcome.....did you pick up your free BLT when you joined ?
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@jason_maranto said:
As I've said many times, the community makes SketchUp worthwhile... this has been true for as long as I've been using SketchUp, and has only become more true over time.
Due to that fact, it has often puzzled me as to how SketchUp has interfaced with the community... or not, as the case may be.
Part of the reason I have such disdain for "darling" is I have very carefully watched his interactions with the users. What I've seen is a person who is perhaps nice seeming and polite, but rather dismissive of the user base and very superior in his own mind. This is not a positive thing... it could be a positive thing if he were a great visionary, a man gifted with insight that passed the comprehension of the masses. After all, such a gifted person should follow their own judgement... but "darling" is very clearly not such a person.
I do think such a person was instrumental in the creation of SketchUp, but they are long gone -- and the people left behind simply do not have the genius to carry the work forward. The genius types can dazzle with sporadic displays of creative inspiration. We non-genius types must get by on hard-work -- going above and beyond, delivering more than is asked. This is why I use the word "craftsmanship" when describing what I think the SketchUp team should be focusing on delivering.
I'll also be blunt and say that "darling" (or his staff) have never gone out of their way to support this place -- to the contrary they have gone out of their way to make sure they are much better represented elsewhere (whether that be a forum, or the new plugin warehouse). Never-mind the user base has chosen (and continues to choose) this place, that doesn't matter -- what matters is they are not in control and that's simply not acceptable. This is just one example of the dismissive attitude I am talking about with "darling" -- if you watch closely you will see it clearly.
This is at the heart of what I think is fundamentally wrong with the SketchUp development process. There is a need for clear-eyed understanding at the helm, especially in light of the fact that SketchUp has re-entered the world of commercial software after so long under the Google worldview... which hasn't done them any favors in mentally preparing then for re-entering the harsh commercial landscape.
Best,
Jason.The only time I had any communication with John he came across as a thoroughly decent bloke who was patiently trying to tell me how and why I was wrong. I still do not accept his arguments 100% but do agree with half at least. A repeated e-mail from John to a tech guy was recieved where it was suggested the tech guy could help with some of the issues I was having, probably related to the method of integration with renditioner. This is where the whole sequence fell over, no further communication from either John or the tech guy. If you are going to suggest a resolution it is pointless to then shut off ALL communication and comes across as disingenuous. The 2013 release along with the low key intro just closes the statement really.
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Have to say that the lack of TSU Team members here at the SCF at the moment makes me feel suspicious...
I acknowledge that there can be several reasons causing their lack of interest...
1.) "Darling" - or even members from the Trimble Executive Board - has set out commandment that no-one are allowed to comment directly as well as indirectly on any off the accusations listed here...
(it's - unfortunately - very common business in many corporations that you don't discuss business strategies in public... In all cases, this is because they have no desire to cause eventual harm on the stock market because an individual employee (or a group of employees) are speaking on behalf of the corporation...)2.) Trimble have decided only to focus on their own community and abandon all third party SketchUp communities...
(but it's going to be tough to ignore a community like SCF
...)3.) The TSU Team are not particularly proud of this release and has chosen to stick their heads in the sand and wait until the storm is raging out...
4.) Some other reasons as well as a combination of no. 1 - 3 above...
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it looks like we are waiting godot
...wait endlessly and in vain for the arrival of someone named Trimble SketchUp Team
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waiting_for_Godot
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@chicos said:
I created an account here at sketchucation just so I could bitch! let me start with a brief synopsis of my feelings: Sketchup 2013 is a complete embarrassment and a disaster! Almost 3 years and this is what we get? Its not like version 8 was specimen of ambitious software development. Just look at the features that Trimble is touting for this release: numbered pages, dashes in dimensions, copy array in LO, curved leader lines, video export . . . holy cow dung I would be embarrassed to put that in my list of improvements, let alone 5 of 11. Even the big ones are let downs: extension warehouse is nice but merely simplifies functionality I already had and Pattern fills as far as I can tell are just added textures. Supposedly speed in layout is improved, but I may never know if I decide to switch to FormZ. Whats $1000 after you blow $95 on the biggest letdown in recent memory.
-chico
Hey Chico, welcome aboard -- there's always room for one more
As I said earlier in the thread, if they separated Layout from SketchUp I would update that right now... but it would have to be less than half the cost. The SketchUp side of things is just pathetically sad... and I too would be embarrassed to release that.
BTW, it is somewhat difficult to find on their website, but here is a comparison chart of current bonzai3d and form.z features: http://www.formz.com/featureslist/FeatureComparisonChart.html
As you can see by the chart, bonzai3d is very comparable with SketchUp, with some additional modeling power (no layout, but $100 less) -- whereas form.z adds alot of really nice capabilities for the extra money. The UI between the two software is essentially identical, with form.z even having a bonzai3d workspace.
Best,
Jason.
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