What will SketchUp Free and Pro look like in 2013?
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@mike lucey said:
Jason, I think you are being a little hard on John B and the SU Dev Team. I will agree that SU development during the Google years was pretty dismal but I also imagine working within the Google environment was extremely restricting even if they did allow one to bring their dog and laundry to work and sit in a tent within the office and climb a wall from time to time. The one thing, I think Google did not allow was direction to be set by the developers.
Just look at the fist thing they did when they acquired the application. They gave it away for free with little consideration given to how this act would effect the overall future development of the program! Okay this action quickly opened the doors to a vast collection of users of all kinds but I don't think it helped the development of SU in any way, only Google's main business ..... advertising. How could any development team set their sights on which way to go, development wise! Those years must have been confusing to say least, still a frustrated developer could always 'climb a wall' or sit in his/her 'tent'.
Perhaps... I was willing to believe the same until John came onto these forums spouting the same drivel he did while being supposedly "constrained" by Google.
So I can draw only a few possible conclusions from this:
- He was not in fact constrained, and the dismal development is not Googles fault.
- He is being similarly constrained by Trimble (not good news to say the least).
- His time at Google brainwashed him and he is now useless.
Best,
Jason.
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@sketch3d.de said:
@jason_maranto said:
...so I guess the "3D for everyone" is also a mislabeling. I mean that phase says SketchUp is meant to be a general modeler -- not an "architectural sketching" specialist.
this slogan is probably created by marketing and surely refers to the ease-of-use, i.e. everyone is enabled to do 3D modeling with SU because of it's simplicity and obvioulsy not to be a 'general modeler' ...whatever this should be.
That's fine, except both John and the people at Trimble have invoked that exact phrase in recent statements about SketchUp's future... doesn't seem to be the actions of a group of people who want to distance themselves from bad Google marketing spin.
"Simple to use" does not a "3D for everyone" program make -- a waffle iron is simple to use, but I can not cook pasta on it (for that I would want a stove and pots and pans). For something to be applicable to everyone it needs to be a generalist, not a specialist... ease of use is a secondary consideration to actual utility.
Best,
Jason. -
@jason_maranto said:
...doesn't seem to be the actions of a group of people who want to distance themselves from bad Google marketing spin.
sure, simply because they understand it in the way I have described above, therefore no change of the claim is required.
@jason_maranto said:
"Simple to use" does not a "3D for everyone" program make
of course it does, what you mean is "3D for every purpose" which was never claimed simply because a faceting wireframe modeler made for creating fast 3D design sketches never will be used if exact NURBS surfaces/solids for e.g. manufacturing are required.
@jason_maranto said:
-- a waffle iron is simple to use, but I can not cook pasta on it (for that I would want a stove and pots and pans).
-- SU is simple to use, but I cannot use it as a replacement for e.g. a full blown AEC/BIM or MCAD tool (for that I would want ArchiCAD/Allplan/Revit or SolidWorks/Inventor/Creo).
jm2cts,
Norbert -
@jason_maranto said:
spouting the same drivel
No, tell me how you really feel
You've been a one-man wrecking ball of negativity - what's your point? Do you expect to effect any change in this way? I just don't see it.I understand the limitations of SU pretty well, and for the things that don't work well, I've moved on, for the things that work great, I still enjoy immensely. For now, it's all conjecture about what will or won't change. Shouting about it isn't going to make much diff that I can see.
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@andybot said:
No, tell me how you really feel
You've been a one-man wrecking ball of negativity - what's your point? Do you expect to effect any change in this way? I just don't see it.I'm being confrontational because now is the time to make these things clear... if not now, when? There is an opportunity for change to occur, but if nobody gets confrontational then nothing will change.
Best,
Jason. -
Both of your examples of what SketchUp is not are examples of specialists tools -- I'm not talking (and never have) about incorporating specialists tools into SketchUp (we don't need a swiss army knife).
I'm talking about modeling 101 tools and functionality -- other users brought up subD (I have not), other users bring up animation (I will not), other users bring up built-in rendering (I will not)... you can tack on whatever other pet project users may want.
64-bit is not some sideline thing, nor is UV mapping/unwrap -- these are fundamental aspects of almost all general modeling applications. Control over how co-planar faces triangulate is also not some outlandish request for a modeling application.
If you want to say that nobody but architects should be using SketchUp, I think you are dead wrong.
Best,
Jason. -
@jason..
and the reason you're not using modo instead of sketchup is?
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I already said it -- the Maxwell plugin is better, but that may not currently be a as true as it once was (things may have improved with the Modo plugin since I last looked).
Modo is certainly one of my top 3 choices... however I have invested money and time into SketchUp and I want to be absolutely sure before I dump it.
Modo also does a bunch of things I don't place a high priority on: animation, subD and built in rendering are features I don't need (so why pay for them)... I think you may have misunderstood what I was saying in regards to those features.
Best,
Jason. -
@jason_maranto said:
I already said it -- the Maxwell plugin is better, but that may not currently be a as true as it once was (things may have improved with the Modo plugin since I last looked).
Modo is certainly one of my top 3 choices... however I have invested money and time into SketchUp and I want to be absolutely sure before I dump it.
Modo also does a bunch of things I don't place a high priority on: animation, subD and built in rendering are features I don't need (so why pay for them)... I think you may have misunderstood what I was saying in regards to those features.
Best,
Jason.dunno.. I learned rhino and it's what I mainly use for 'real' drawings now but I still use sketchup too.. I don't think it has to be either/or...
(but I will say this.. a couple of years ago I had a lot of wishes for sketchup.. (still do but...).. I had to decide wether to wait around for sketchup to do what I needed it to or invest in software that already does what I need (by invest, I mean invest time to learn.. rhino is still free on Mac
)... and now, I'm super glad I went with the latter..re: unused features.. thats part of what you'll have to deal with... if you want a more powerful software package, odds are its going to be more powerful in many ways.. not just the ways that are tailored to your personal requirements..
(but hey, there are things in sketchup that I never ever use either.. I'm sure it's the same for you too) -
i guess what I'm saying is give up on sketchup.. quit wishing and hoping.. accept it for what it is and that's that..
we've been in this game long enough to know sketchup's future and accepting that will make life a bit easier on you..
but still feel free to gripe online about sketchup.. i do it too.. but more for conversation than any other motive..
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@unknownuser said:
I had to decide wether to wait around for sketchup to do what I needed it to or invest in software that already does what I need (by invest, I mean invest time to learn... and now, I'm super glad I went with the latter..
My thoughts precisely! If you need something else, get it now. What's the point in waiting and wishing (and incidentally whining, but that's an opinion) That's why I went to Blender, even though it was more than a year in study to get to where it's actually useful to me professionally.
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Sketchup is my Duct tape, it's great for many fixes, however sometimes I need a hammer, screwdriver or wrench, for that I use another app.
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OFF TOPIC
Jeff. You are using Rhino on Mac? I was just looking into that. I thought since it is Beta I was out of luck...so it's feasible then? What OS are you using?
Peter -
I'm not sure how it was implied that I don't use other 3D applications -- I have 5 other 3D applications I use regularly already. I'm all about simplification, I want to reduce the overall amount of applications I need to use to keep my life simpler.
Things have gone through a very large change with the move from Google to Trimble -- I don't think it will be as superficial as many of you believe... what I am doing is fighting for my wants/needs to be given attention.
The squeaky wheel gets the grease as they say -- and I am going to squeak as loud and as often as I can until I see SketchUp 2013. At that point I will consider the fat lady to have sung and I will move on if need be. To be honest I was going to leave months ago, but it was requested I stay -- so I have adopted a "wait and see" attitude rather than just giving up.
I remember the crap hit the fan when version 8 was released. SketchUp 2013 backlash will be even worse if they don't get on the ball... I'm hoping Trimble is listening (and will apply pressure) because I've more or less given up on John.
Best,
Jason. -
Jason, We certainly hope you "stay" here regardless. We can use the help! Peter
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@jason_maranto said:
so I have adopted a wait and see attitude rather than just giving up.
Set your expectations as low as possible, and they will be surpassed
I guess I don't see SU fundamentally changing any time soon, so I use it as appropriate in my workflow, and for the rest I go elsewhere. I guess I'm a bit taken aback by your level of frustration. On the one hand, I do agree it seems like you've been harping on the same issues for years, and with no visible effect. However, you've gone well beyond squeaky wheel in many posts...
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@pbacot said:
OFF TOPIC
Jeff. You are using Rhino on Mac? I was just looking into that. I thought since it is Beta I was out of luck...so it's feasible then? What OS are you using?lion.. it's in beta still and probably will be for a while but it's free to use and give feedback on now..
some things aren't hooked up yet and in certain professional environments, I could see them being deal breakers for now.. (no printing / output other than exporting to another software.. (you can render using toucan but I still prefer going SU->Indigo for that.. there's a lot of UI stuff that still needs polishing etc but the fact that the windows versions does everything has me confident that macs will do it as well eventually..
but all the tools are hooked up and it's stable..
for me, as a designer/builder, the lack of printing/layout/construction docs doesn't bother me.. the model and my jobsite computer are all I need anyway..
I'd highly recommend checking it out
.
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@jason_maranto said:
I'm not sure how it was implied that I don't use other 3D applications -- I have 5 other 3D applications I use regularly already. I'm all about simplification, I want to reduce the overall amount of applications I need to use to keep my life simpler.
oh.. ok then.. at least you have other ways to accomplish things you can't do in SU so that's good..
carry on then with the rants
(I just feel they fall on deaf ears
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@andybot said:
I guess I'm a bit taken aback by your level of frustration. On the one hand, I do agree it seems like you've been harping on the same issues for years, and with no visible effect. However, you've gone well beyond squeaky wheel in many posts...
I'm sure, as a matter of fact I've even pointed out I'm aware of how this is coming across in previous posts -- and I do feel regretful of that.
But here's what I know: they do read this stuff. In the past I've tried to be more diplomatic and genial in my requests and that got me nowhere... with the amount of apathetic and apologetic themes posted in these threads I feel my voice of dissatisfied dissension must be even louder to make sure it rises above the din (so to speak). They can disagree with me but hopefully they will find me impossible to ignore (or shut up).
There is a small glimmer of hope for real change here and now -- things are not the same as they were and now is the time to speak up... strike while the iron is hot and all that.
I may seem hostile, but in actuality there is an underlying hopefulness that is pervasive in my posts... otherwise I would not post at all.
Best,
Jason. -
Something that I can see happening is an extension of the idea that pro might be developed a lot further and free basically left as is with only a few changes. The potential development if they were to go for a 64 bit version would be for that to be the pro version with free left as a 32 bit app. It would enable a few more levels in there with different pricing and as long as something usable comes in at a reasonable price it might be a fair trade. It does depend on the cost benefit ratio.
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