WIP Assault Rifle

Mike Amos

Sorry Damien but the bren gun was NOT reverse engineered to produce the ak-47. If there was any influence from other nation weapons it would have been the StG 44 produce by the germans in, guess it, 1944 and used operationally by the paratroops mostly.

The bren gun was designed by the Brno small arms factory and produced at the Enfield small arms factory. The name 'bren' gun comes from the two town names BRno and ENfield.

StG-44

AK-47

iichiversii

There's no need to be sorry mike, the AK47 is a reverse ingineered Bren gun, I'm on my iPhone at the moment but I will explain further ahem I get in front of my laptop, but I will say if u comparing the firing mechanisim of a Bren and AK you will see they are both the same and are no where the same as the StG44, the exterior of the weapon is no indication, it's the mechanism itself that makes the difference between a AK and StG44.

Mike Amos

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AK-47

iichiversii

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bren_light_machine_gun check the dates, Bren gun was in service yrs before the German StG44 which hitler himself cancelled production of as he didn't believe in the weapon, it was being put trough it's trials near end of WW2, iv stripped both the AK47 and the Bren, both mechanisms are the same, not sure of the StG44 mechanism but the Bren has being around longer and try looking at the Bren upside down and compare to the AK47, the only difference is the pistol grip is on opposite sides, we used the Bren in the Irish reserves into 10 yrs ago, I knew this weapon inside out, I then joined the army and served in Kosovo with NATO and stripping an Ak47 for the first time was very natural to me because it stripped and assembled the same as the Bren.

iichiversii

Also check the calibre, the StG was 7.92 and both the Ak and Bren were 7.62, weapon are usually designed around the calibre, look at the P90, famously known from the stargaze series, this weapon was designed around a new calibre 5.7 . They designed the weapon around a new type of ballistic round.

Mike Amos

http://www.thephora.net/forum/archive/index.php/t-71499.html

iichiversii

@mike amos said:

http://www.thephora.net/forum/archive/index.php/t-71499.html

Both weapons are different internal, I don't think you understand the mechanism which u can't see from the outside, the mechanism of the Ak47 and Bren gun are the same, the StG44 isn't, so therefore it's not influenced by the StG44, different mechanism, the same man may have worked on both weapons but he used a mechanism which is the same as a Bren, the Bren had to be reversed Engineered to create the same mechanism for the Ak47

Mike Amos

The bren was innitially chambered for the then current british ammunition which was .303" not 7.62mm. The only bren guns to fire the 7.62 NATO spec ammunition were modified mark 3 and above units and these were not in use until post world war two. The russian ammunition at the time was 7.62mm. Note the progression of ammunition types right up to 76.2mm for the t-34 tanks equiped with what was called the t34/76.

It would not have been logical for the russians to use the 7.92mm calibre used by most german weapons for logistical reasons.

As for experience, my father used the bren gun as his personal weapon during national service and they had a mixed bag of .303" and 7.62mm because the british army were then rearming with the SLR 'Belgian FN' and the ammunition was being standardised. I also had a bren gun as my personal weapon while training recruits and we had a dinosaur of a .303" chambered bren, and no ammunition to fire from it. Your information is flawed sir.

iichiversii

Lol, this Arguement could go on forever ha ha, this is fun

iichiversii

I need my laptop to fire more ammo bk at you Mike

Mike Amos

Good debate is the life blood of any forum so long as we keep it clean. We are all entitled to our opinions after all.

Seriously though, similarity of componentry does not indicate a common ancestry, merely the same problems being met with similar solutions. Just take a look at formula 1 cars for example. BTW, the StG 44 began development in about 1939 and production included stampled metal for the carrier and slide cover. It would be interesting to see all three bolts and pins side by side. Those brens are heavy buggers for what they are too.

iichiversii

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?202133-Did-the-Bren-gun-influence-the-designer-of-the-AK47

I found this link to another forum with our same Arguement, again it's more or less the same as our discussion, 1 individual claims the Bren influenced the StG44 and then both influenced the AK47, this would make us both right lol, Another says the mechanism of the AK47 and Bren are different but I know this is a false statement as iv had hands in both and the mechanism is the same, but it seems to be an ongoing discussion, I remember hearing yrs ago when I was a reservist that the AK47 was a reverse engineered bren gun which was captured, but the link mike posted replaces the bren with the same story, strange, but I will add the mechanism of the bren and AK are the same so if it were the StG44 they reverse engineered to influence the AK it makes no sense since its a completely different mechanism inside, but bare in mind that the AK is smaller in size compared to the Bren and similar in size to the StG44, so what could of happened here is the Russians wanted an assault rifle like the StG44 but used the mechanism of a Bren to better it, the mechanism of a Bren and AK are a very rugged weapon due to its mechanism, who really knows the real answer to this, maybe we are both right or mikes wrong

sh00ks

Cool, gun nuts

Mike Amos

Not a 'gun nut' as you put it, I just had a lot of time firing and cleaning a fairly diverse selection as part of my job. Biggest gun I was qualified on was the Chieftain and Challenger 120mm. They do tend to mess up what they hit. They also take a load of time cleaning and then some.