Did a God or Gods create the universe? EDITED

cornel

@ Alan F.
I know that topography of the Earth (land and water) HAS CHANGED SUBSTANTIALLY..., and will be changed again soon, during Tribulation period, according to biblical prophecies. All God’s words are trustworthy!

I also know that the Atmosphere had before a different composition, density and thickness!

Alan Fraser

False equivalence yet again. That's one huge cop-out. If vast areas haven't been flooded, they haven't been flooded...and there is quite obvious evidence if they have been. If there isn't enough water on the planet, there isn't enough water. The annual stratifications in ice deposits are perfectly clear. There is ample evidence of continuous civilization...in China, Egypt and many other places, predating any possible date for such a deluge. They must have blinked and missed it. It is utterly disingenuous to equate all this with a single Bronze Age myth that isn't even original.

Yes, one group of Chinese, the Miao, do have a flood myth in oral tradition. It involves one man and his sister floating away in a gourd. No animals...just them. He tricked her into marrying him afterwards. The child was malformed. He chopped it into pieces and threw them away; and they turned into people. Totally unlike Genesis. As I said, plenty have places have been locally flooded. It's exactly what you might expect. It signifies nothing other than the human capacity to create myths.

Alan Fraser

Stop talking crap, Cornel. You know no such thing.

Alan Fraser

@jason_maranto said:

My definition of God allows for anything to be possible -- so I see no issues

In other words, you see fit not to enquire or question anything; not to use the brain God gave you...rather like a cow in a field. They see no issues either.

Bless

jason_maranto

I question pretty much everything -- but I'm smart enough to admit when I don't know and just move on. Life is too short and I've got much better things to dwell on -- this has very little to do with anything as Brodie has already said. I just consider it a fun diversion.

Best,
Jason.

jason_maranto

It's not really a cop-out I just know when I'm outclassed (by God, not you).

A couple Bible quotes to back that up and then I'm off to bed:

1 Corinthians 1:25
Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

1 Corinthians 1:27
But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

So what I am saying is at my very wisest I an no smarter than God at his most foolish moment... it would be the worst type of vanity for me to assume I know better or even that I could figure it out. In the same way a fire ant has no way of conceiving the purposes you have for the things you do -- or even how you do them.

Best,
Jason.

cornel

‘Alan F’wrote: “Stop talking crap, Cornel. You know no such thing.”

OK, mister, I remain silent, because the truth upsets...

Dropout

@unknownuser said:

‘Alan F’wrote: “Stop talking crap, Cornel. You know no such thing.”

OK, mister, I remain silent, because the truth upsets...

Your version of the truth, you mean.

cornel

@ ’Dropout’. Expression „version of the truth” ia an absurdity...

We find the TRUTH revealed in God's Word (in the Bible), so, study it carefully, if you want to know in what world you live!

Hieru

So the people of Omachron Persei 8 are supposed to buy into the teachings of the Bible despite the fact that they cannot relate to its teachings on any level?

Dropout

@unknownuser said:

@ ’Dropout’. Expression „version of the truth” ia an absurdity...

We find the TRUTH revealed in God's Word (in the Bible), so, study it carefully, if you want to know in what world you live!

Oh, I have studied it carefully for many years.

There are two things, faith and theology. Faith is that Jesus died for our sins. That's not negotiable. Theology is everything else, how long did it take for God to create the world, are all unbelievers going to Hell, women in ecclesiastical office, homosexuality etc. These are subject to study and negotiation.

The Bible teaches that salvation is dependent on only one thing: belief that Jesus is Saviour. That's all. There are no other catches, secret handshakes, financial requirements. Nothing else. To suggest otherwise is in error. You may believe in a young earth, I don't. It doesn't matter since it's not a salvation issue.

As we go into the world, we need to bring only one message and that is that God loves everyone no matter what, not beat people over the head with our particular brand of theology.

cornel

’Dropout’ wrote: “[The Bible teaches that salvation is dependent on only one thing: belief that Jesus is Saviour. That's all.]”

You are wrong, mister ’Dropout’..., because of this:

“You say you have faith, for you believe that there is one God. Good for you! Even the DEMONS believe this, and they tremble in terror. How foolish! Can’t you see that faith without good deeds is useless?” (James 2:19-20)

jeff hammond

I like how cornel argues everyone... believers or not.
nobody is right.. nobody is going to heaven.. except cornel

Im beginning to think cornel is actually god.

Dropout

@unknownuser said:

’Dropout’ wrote: “[The Bible teaches that salvation is dependent on only one thing: belief that Jesus is Saviour. That's all.]”

You are wrong, mister ’Dropout’..., because of this:

“You say you have faith, for you believe that there is one God. Good for you! Even the DEMONS believe this, and they tremble in terror. How foolish! Can’t you see that faith without good deeds is useless?” (James 2:19-20)

That is true BUT the intent here is to say that we cannot use faith as a "get out of jail free" card.

Also, most people already have the "good deeds". Everyone, no matter how depraved, does some things that are good.

When believers fight over theology Satan laughs because it means we're not doing what we need to be doing which is showing God's love to the world.

And solo, I'm Canadian too.

cornel

@ ‘Jeff H’. I do not say that “nobody is going to heaven” (you said...), but quite the contrary...
I assumed that you know verses undiscussed...!
Voila an example:

“As many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: who were born not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. (John 1:12-13)

cornel

‘Dropout’ is confused, because “[most people already have the "good deeds".]”
Voila the difference:

Who thinks that through their good deeds will be saved, deceive themselves... (this it's not the way...)
Who are saved (were born again), demonstrate this by their good deeds.

jeff hammond

@unknownuser said:

@ ‘Jeff H’. I do not say that “nobody is going to heaven” (you said...), but quite the contrary...
I assumed that you know verses undiscussed...!
Voila an example:

“As many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: who were born not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. (John 1:12-13)

sorry dude.. i don't even know what you're talking about or attempting to say..
and i'm trying.

i didn't mean nobody as in nobody on the planet earth is going to heaven.. i know at least 5 people out there that you are going to let in because they act just like you (one of them is in my immediate family)... i meant - you're not going to let anyone in this thread pass through the pearly gates.. or maybe you will? make a quick little list of those in this thread that are going to heaven..

brodie

@solo said:

So when you question something that sounds ridiculous and you do not find an answer you just accept and move on? I do not think that is smart at all.

To me it's kind of like the double slit experiment which I'm sure you're familiar with (if you haven't seen this version though it's a MUST see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfPeprQ7oGc ). It's pretty mind boggling, particularly when you get into the notion of observation affecting the outcome. Really all of that quantum physics stuff is mind boggling. And I find it fascinating to peruse the various theories that scientists have come up with to explain the results as well as theories about what those results mean for other areas of science.

I think for me (and it would seem for Jason as well), this is somewhat analogous to how the Noah story is. It's interesting to research and debate different theories on how it may have occurred as well as to postulate how each of those theories might affect our broader worldview and theology. But in the end, no matter how ridiculous the story may sound on its face, it's enough to simply know that it happened. Except in this case, having both historical and literary aspects rather than repeatable scientific ones, we must also ask what the "it" was that happened or even if the original author believed "it" happened at all or if he was merely relaying a point to his audience.

It's all very intriguing but in the end what would need to be proven isn't whether or not the flood could have happened, because if we allow for God then the answer is yes (no matter if that seems like a cheat to the atheist or not). Instead what would need to be proved is that there's no God, or at least not one who would have so intervened. And that's where I come back to the resurrection in particular, not that it's the sole evidence for God but I find it to be the crux of the matter on which the Christian faith rests.

-Brodie

Dropout

@unknownuser said:

‘Dropout’ is confused, because “[most people already have the "good deeds".]”
Voila the difference:

Who thinks that through their good deeds will be saved, deceive themselves... (this it's not the way...)

Who are saved (were born again), demonstrate this by their good deeds.

No I am not confused. You are misunderstanding me. Not once did I even suggest that good deeds will save anyone. I said that everyone, no matter what, does some good things. From an eternal perspective, good deeds have no value unless there is also faith. My point was that for most people the acceptance of Christ means little or no change in lifestyle.

cornel

@ ‘Dropout’. If there aren’t “[changes in lifestyle]”, that faith is a wrong one...
See, for example, those verses:

“Therefore we do not lose heart. Though outwardly we are wasting away, yet inwardly we are being renewed day by day.” (2Corintians 4:16)

“He saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of His mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit.” (Titus3:5)

Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—His good, pleasing and perfect will.” (Romans 12:2)