Act of God.
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@unknownuser said:
‘Alan F’. claims that “Most of these people are just innocent people, just going about their lives, trying to do the best they can.”
But God sees things differently:
“[There is no one righteous, not even one; there is no one who understands; there is no one who seeks God. All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, NOT EVEN ONE.]” (Romans 3:10-12)No one is INNOCENT PEOPLE, and,
“The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.” (Romans 6:23)
Think more deeply, Alan!
That's nothing but religious masochism and sophistry.. The idea that some new born babe is born into sin and needs to be redeemed is just ridiculous. If there really is a god and that really is the case, then he couldn't have chosen a more ludicrous model. Has it never occured to you that all this stuff about the need for redemption and all those quotations you are so fond of like "The fool says there is no god." are all nothing but job creation strategies?
If I was selling religion, now or at any time in the past, I'd be saying exactly that kind of thing in order to ensure that the power, status and tithes kept flowing my way. It really is a case of "Well, they would say that, wouldn't they."
Has it never occurred to you that God appeared to be having direct conversations with every man and his dog in that particular part of the world at that particular time...but appears to have been remarkably quiet ever since?...at least to people who aren't certifiable and hearing voices in their head. I don't suppose that has anything to do with the culture extant at that time and in that place, or that they were largely illiterate goat-herders, struggling to find some sense and meaning to the world around them?
The notion of any kind of omniscient being is self-contradictory. If you exist outside of time and space, you don't have the faintest idea of what it's like to be us. You might have an academic appreciation, but that's not the same as really knowing. Almost everything we think or do...the very essence of our psyche is predicated upon not knowing what tomorrow will bring. If you can forsee the future, then you can't know fear, uncertainty, trepidation, disappointment, joy, exhileration, anxiety or any one of a thousand other emotions that we use as definitions of what it is to be human. If you don't know these things, you are a long way from being omniscient.
At one time I even wondered if that was the true meaning of our existence..that we were, in some way, aspects of God himself, injected into his creation to gather all those emotions by proxy and literally offer them up to him to complete that flawed omniscience. So you see, we heathens are capable of fairly profound religious contemplation. We did not arrive at our present conclusions without very serious philosophical reasoning...probably far more than the average church-fodder christian. We are not the arrogant and simplistically prideful, blind materialists that fundamentalists like to kid themselves we are, because it offers them a mote of consolation.
I do think deeply...rather more deeply than you do, it would seem. It takes no great depth of thought to merely regurgitate ready-made answers.
I haven't reached any conclusion about the existence of God, other than the fact that if there is one, he not the one we learned about in Sunday School. On this mortal coil at least, his existence (if any) is unprovable, therefore of no real relevance.And while we're at it. The burden of proof does not lie with us rationalists. It's not us that are making extraordinary claims. And extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.
It's not up to us to prove that there was no global flood or that the earth has not undergone substantial changes in the very recent past...although that is perfectly clear to anyone with any decent kind of education who is not straightjacketed by religious dogma.
It is up to those claiming such to provide that proof.If there was a global flood, prove it....hard scientific proof.
If the earth and atmosphere have undergone the changes you claim, prove it...hard scientific proof.
If Noah's ark was real, prove it...where is it? It supposedly made landfall very high up. There are plenty of examples of organic matter thousands of years old, surviving in similar high, dry environments. If the remains of a small animal or plant can survive for that length of time, you'd think there would be some small evidence of something the size of a city block.
If, as Jason claims, the continents only started to drift apart after the flood...very recently, prove it. Demonstrate convincingly why the current model is wrong. Explain how all those layers of basalt stretching out either side of the mid-Atlantic ridge, showing clear evidence of repeated polar magnetic reversals (something that happens very infrequently) are wrong. Demonstrate how the date they give for the separation of the Americas from the Old World...which is entirely consistent with the current continuing rate of separation...is wrong. Again, not quotes from some supposedly self-affirming ancient text, but hard scientific proof. -
The Bible is the world's only book written in original without fail, without any inadvertence!
Sometimes, in some versions, encounter errors of translation, or of incomplete understanding, but the original is impeccable!
It may be that certain statements of Christian faith seem absurd for any thinker, but my faith is based on the Authority of Bible, the Word of God.
The Bible is the only book in the world, containing prophecies which were fulfilled (or are ongoing...) exactly, in great detail.God has told us, before, about a series of events that will happen, to prove us that He is always trustworthy. Everything God decided, is fulfilled precisely, so I count my faith firmly on His Word. What He said is going to happen, It's done…, the only 'problem' is just time, because every event "takes its time." God has always shown his Authority, but people do not take into account…!
True faith isn’t 'blind', as one imagines, but is based on careful research and check 'tangible' things...!Bible motto is "Prove all things, and keep what is good" (1 Thessalonians 5:21), not that false slogan, embraced by naives in the form "Believe and do not question/ investigate!"
Important aren’t the opinions of different kind of people about faith, but what the Bible says about it!Faith accepts as real, as reliable, things not seen...yet!
There are, for example, Paradise and Hell. Rational I can not prove their existence but my faith accepts them as real...- Is this a nonsense? - Not at all!
I believe in the existence of God because the Bible says, and because I can see His work.
I believe in a future resurrection, because the Bible tells me about this, and because Jesus Christ has already risen.
And so forth...
- Is this a nonsense? - Not at all!
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@unknownuser said:
The Bible is the world's only book written in original without fail, without any inadvertence!
No dude, that's the claim of the Qur'an. The bible was edited during the rule of the Roman Emperor Constantine. It didn't exist before. The bible is and artificial book. There were just many gospels all saying their own thing. It was written and edited by men. If it was truly one piece of work inspired by god then there wouldn't be any need for creating it or editing it, would it? -
Maybe God hadn't invented spellchecker on his Apple Mac?
At least now we know God made apples but man made Windows
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@unknownuser said:
The Bible is the world's only book written in original without fail, without any inadvertence!
Sometimes, in some versions, encounter errors of translation, or of incomplete understanding, but the original is impeccable!someone need to learn and study history more, including those facts about his own religion and religious institution
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Marian, you're joking...
You do not open the Bible, but you think you know better about it, but billions of people who have studied it and adopted it.Give me an example of contradiction in it!
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@unknownuser said:
Marian, you're joking...
You do not open the Bible, but you think you know better about it, but billions of people who have studied it and adopted it.Give me an example of contradiction in it!
Are you asking for examples of contradictions in the bible?
If yes, I'll start a new thread as there are so many it will need to be an entire new topic.
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@unknownuser said:
Marian, you're joking...
You do not open the Bible, but you think you know better about it, but billions of people who have studied it and adopted it.Give me an example of contradiction in it!
http://www.google.com/search?q=bible+contradictions&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t
http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/page/bible-contradictions
etcetc .. -
OK, Solo, start with one of them...!
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I'm actually amazed Cornel that you are not aware of any contradictions in the bible, the book you done research on for decades, as you said. Either your sight is bad or don't know how to read.
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/jim_meritt/bible-contradictions.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RB3g6mXLEKk
I hope you're not going to tell me those are not valid because I didn't do the reasearch myself.
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@marian said:
I'm actually amazed Cornel that you are not aware of any contradictions in the bible, the book you done research on for decades, as you said. Either your sight is bad or don't know how to read.
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/jim_meritt/bible-contradictions.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RB3g6mXLEKk
I hope you're not going to tell me those are not valid because I didn't do the reasearch myself.
When you live your life with blinkers on you never get to see the big picture.
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Marian, give me AN EXAMPLE, not a list!
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The census of Quirinius (Cyrenius) and Herod the Great were not contemporary...they were separated by at least 9 years. This is a matter of historical record. So which was it...the journey to Bethlehem or the Massacre of the Innocents...you can't have both.
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@unknownuser said:
Marian, give me AN EXAMPLE, not a list!
You can not to choose any example from the list?
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@unknownuser said:
Maybe God hadn't invented spellchecker on his Apple Mac?
At least now we know God made apples but man made WindowsSteve Job created the world, with a little help from Chuck Norris (must admit).
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@solo said:
When you live your life with blinkers on you never get to see the big picture.
Truly sad and pitiful
@unknownuser said:
Marian, give me AN EXAMPLE, not a list!
Why? Just pick one from the lists.
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@ 'Alan F.'
Herod the Great ruled 37-4 BC, but the current calendar is wrong, with several years difference. After him, was Herod Archelaus, who ruled 4BC-6AD.
I thought you know these simple things…! -
I do know those simple things, but what have they...or a later change of calendar...got to do with it? Quirinius wasn't appointed governor until the Romans had to impose direct rule after Herod Archelaus was driven from power in 6-7 AD...a decade later...and by the same calendar
This is both matter of Roman record and that of the Jewish historian Josephus. -
‘Alan F’, you probably know just as in A.D. 6 the emperor dispached Quirinius to Syria, and, at the same time, Coponius was named guvernor of Judea, and the two did conduct a Census.
According to some historians, this is the second time Quirinius was governor in Syria, and because of that, in the Bible, we have such a mention, at Luke 2:1-2:
“[In those days Caesar Augustus issued a decree that a census should be taken of the entire Roman world. This was the FIRST Census that took place while Quirinius was governor of Syria. And everyone went to their own town to register.]”So Luke knew about at least 2 Quirinius Census...!
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An interesting documentary
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8E4bI6YUXEg&feature=player_embedded
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