Legalities of 3D warehouse models - commercial purposes
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Hi there,
Using models from the 3D warehouse for commercial purposes... legal?
I'm not trying to sell the actual models, they are just part of a larger site that is commercial. I'm thinking of having the models hyperlink to a page where you can buy a similar real-life item.
The most intelligent sounding post relating to this that I've found on the net so far:
*The license that content creators must grant under the TOS is straightforward. Both Google and end users have a non-exclusive, perpetual, worldwide license to use any content uploaded under the terms of the TOS. If you upload content, in other words, you are granting a perpetual, royalty-free, worldwide non-exclusive license to both Google and those who use the Google 3D warehouse. While the content creator can make the content available under a different license, said license can't interfere with the license granted under the TOS unless the content creator removes their content from the 3D warehouse subject to the termination requirements. Even so, any use of the content by google or end users PRIOR to termination will remain protected under the license.If you are an end user (which you would be in this case) you can use that content in any manner described in the ToS, including:
to reproduce the Content;
to create and reproduce derivative works of the Content;
to display publicly and distribute copies of the Content;
to display publicly and distribute copies of derivative works of the content.There is no limitation on commercial use. The enumerated rights are those provided in Sec. 102 and 103 of the Copyright Act, and the act anticipates commercial use.
Because EACH content creator grants this license for any works uploaded to 3D warehouse, this applies to every piece of content uploaded by content creators. Because the license to the end user is substantially similar to Google's license in the content uploaded, the "one model" argument makes little sense-- the license applies to all Content (all information, data, text, photographs, graphics, messages or other materials posted or displayed on Google Warehouse) generated by content creators.
However-- bear in mind that you're relying on the integrity of the person who uploaded the content. If THEY infringed on someone's copyright in creating the work and you later use that work, you may also be brought into an infringement action. Google is protected under the DMCA safe harbor for service providers that create access to user generated content. You are not. As is always the case, it's usually smarter to come up with your own content to avoid most IP problems.
~Mona Ibrahim, Esq.
J.D., LL.M.
Trademark & Entertainment Attorney*(original link: http://www.gamedev.net/topic/537007-google-3d-warehouse-for-commercial-game/)
Does the post above ring true, or do you understand the legal issues differently?
Looking in the 3D warehouse, many users don't even post profile information so it would be difficult to even give them attribution for their work. In the last paragraph above she says "come up with your own content to avoid intellectual property problems" ... do commercial sites really go to this trouble? If the site got really popular what are the chances that the use of others' models would cause an issue?
Please respond only if you are knowledgeable in intellectual property rights (similar to the quote I posted)... it's easy to assume but that may not be fact. If it matters from a legal standpoint I'm from western Canada.
The reason I want to get this clarified is that I'm about to spend a lot of time basing a commercial site around the use of SketchUp models that exist already and wouldn't want it to get shut down later.
Thank you
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Hi Mike,
I've been involved in a few copyright issues in my day all on the 'chasing side'. The bottom line for me is that its very difficult and expensive for a copyright holder to take a case on perceived infringement. Its those 'legal eagles' that make the money in the end.
It looks from the TOU that you are okay to go. However I can see your concerns. You don't want someone to come along if and when your venture is successful and possible profitable i.e. making money! You then become what the 'legal eagles' refer to as a good 'mark' and they would be more inclined to go after you as they will see dividends.
This may sound cynical but I believe it to be fact. Also I have very little time for the legal profession in general. On the other hands many of my friends are solicitors, so not all are bad news.
Be practical about it, cover you backside the best you can with some kind of a statement that acknowledges even the unknown modelers. I hate to say it but this may involve going to a 'legal eagle' and paying him / her cash to come up with a fairly fool proof statement.
Hope this helps.
(another ) Mike
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Personally, I'd be very wary of doing that. I'm not sure that anyone will be able to give solid advice either way, because of the sheer amount of grey area within the whole field of copyright law.
My own company actually already does something like this...not linking to a retail source, but to the actual manufacturer, as here.We have had some experience of what you are asking about. I'll send you a PM with the details (in which we weren't even using any Warehouse content...just our own 'home built' stuff), so you'll know what to expect if you decide to proceed.
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@gifro10 said:
Please respond only if you are knowledgeable in intellectual property rights (similar to the quote I posted)...
Hi Mike,
Well, this is basically a CG site so we may not be very well equipped with intellectual property lawyers here. I am a lawyer myself although I am not practising it actively (moreover, I am from Hungary so our system is based on the Roman / Continental law system rather than the English Common Law - although intellectual property and copyright laws are quite similar and sort of international).
The fact that you are in Canada, will not affect the contract (TOS) that was made between you and Google under US (more exactly Californian) law - see 22.7
The Terms, and your relationship with Google under the Terms, shall be governed by the laws of the State of California without regard to its conflict of laws provisions. You and Google agree to submit to the exclusive jurisdiction of the courts located within the county of Santa Clara, California to resolve any legal matter arising from the Terms. Notwithstanding this, you agree that Google shall still be allowed to apply for injunctive remedies (or an equivalent type of urgent legal relief) in any jurisdiction.
Anyway, reading and re-reading that attorney's opinion on the content and sharing it in general, I more or less agree with it. There is one particular point in the TOS however that may apply to your case and it is 11.4Notwithstanding anything to the contrary, without Google’s prior authorization, you may not: (i) aggregate Content obtained from Google Services for redistribution...
Now from your description it seems that you are not planning to "aggregate" the content (models or model images - or actually what exactly?) but use them to link elsewhere... In my interpretation, if you are not "aggregating" the content for "redistribution" (but say for "decoration"), you are still not breeching the TOS - although it is still "aggregating".However I would still (and also) suggest to create your own content (especially if you do not really need that content from the WH since - as you say - you would be linking elsewhere). But of course, I cannot really see what you are planning to do so here I can base my opinion on the impressions that I have gathered.
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I don't know what you are planning, but take a look at 5.3:
**@unknownuser said:5.3 You agree not to access (or attempt to access) any of the Services by any means other than through the interface that is provided by Google, unless you have been specifically allowed to do so in a separate agreement with Google.**
In past, they seemed to take it seriously that nobody else links directly to their resources (images, kmz files etc.). But of course it's no problem to put a link to a webpage of 3D Warehouse. -
It is actually an interesting issue you are raising, Aerilius (and I know you have had great ideas, too).
The GE API allow you to integrate models and even collections from the WH into your site - although true that it may fall into the category "you have been specifically allowed to do so in a separate agreement with Google" (after all, you agree to another TOS when getting the API key).
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@unknownuser said:
Well, this is basically a CG site so we may not be very well equipped with intellectual property lawyers here.
Good point, I guess it was my selfish attempt at getting quality responses
Thank you for the feedback, some useful points for sure.Does it matter if I alter every model piece from its current shape / color? At what point is something a derived work vs. one's own creation? I guess I'm opening a can of worms and as mentioned, there are gray areas ... that are interpreted by lawyers if it was to ever go to court.
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I realize this is an old thread but I'm not sure if the questioned was answered?
So here is my question, can I take models from the Google 3d warehouse, modify them and then use the final image in a book? Without giving anybody permission or credit?
(I'm not trying to rip anyone off)Here is an image to illustrate what I would like to use in a book.
http://www.tallbridgeguy.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/20120420-074023.jpgStuart
iphone -
My own feeling would be that it would be a courtesy (but only if you felt that way inclined) but certainly not obligatory. You are, after all, not offering the original model, or even a modified version of it; you are offering a rendering, which is a completely different medium.
At FormFonts, we offer models (comercially) for exactly that purpose...to produce a composite model, modify it as desired, then produce an illustration for the end user. It's nice to see a credit from time to time (like in an article or blog), but we certainly wouldn't expect to receive one in the vast majority of cases. In fact, given that some of our users are Marvel Comics or movie previz artists it would be downright ridiculous.
Okay, we are commercial and allow that kind of usage for a fee...but no one is twisting anyone's arm to post content to the 3D Warehouse. If you post stuff for free for general usage, you ought to expect it to get used...short of someone actually stealing your mesh and claiming it's theirs, of course. -
Thanks for the reply, Alan!
I think I am covered by the derivative work clause but the TOS is open to interpretation...I could draw all the models for my images but it is fun to mix and match and create something new. (not saying they are any good, mind you, just fun to do.)
I have seen this discussion played out over the last few years and I don't see a definitive answer.
I wonder if anyone has been sued yet so we can see the results?
Thanks again!
s
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I have a related copyright issue, if someone can comment on it. Namely, what if:
- I download a model from SU's 3d warehouse
- I curate it, I verify for errors, I verify/put materials
- I prepare materials for a render process
Now, which one of the following scenarios would be safe, in your opinion:
(a) I reupload to my own models portal, no fees whatsoever
(b) I reupload to a separate collection on 3Dwarehouse
(c) I create a SU plugin for accessing from my own server (no from 3d warehouse), no fees whatsoeverReading the TOS of 3d warehouse, tallbridgeguy's works are clearly legally covered by the derivative work clause.
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