I need some insane architectural ideas.
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If you want the 'wow' factor, then why not an energy efficient community with houses so energy efficient that they produce more energy than they use (solar heating, PV panels, wind turbines). The housing complex should work like a small village, so residents feel they are part of a community and not living in a dormitory town. That would be the 'wow' factor, and not dodgy architecture. Research examples of sustainable communities, and don't be afraid to take the best of what has been shown to work. Think about the things that people need to make their lives easier, such as nursery schools, pubs, convenience shops, care for the elderly, public transport etc. Look at water usage too, and how waste water might be recycled. The same with human waste management and the recycling of packaging etc. Plant woodland and look at ways and means to support and sustain local flora and fauna.
Regards,
Bob -
I'd highly recommend do not touch the virgin landscape at all. I mean it
У японского туриста, приехавшего в Россию, спрашивают:
- Что Вам больше всего понравилось в нашей стране?
- Мне понравились ваши изумительные дети.
- А что еще понравилось? Не стесняйтесь, говорите!
- У вас замечательные, бесподобные дети.
- Детей мы тоже любим. Дети - наши цветы! А что еще понравилось? Только не стесняйтесь!
- Самое прекрасное у вас - это дети! А то, что вы делаете руками, - это очень-очень плохо.
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@bmike said:
the reason notes have such power in music is because of the spaces in between.
Although in this case, I entirely agree with you ie the relationship in music between the spaces between notes, having more power then when crammed together in something that is over produced. I also agree that there is a very strong connection between music and architecture.
However determining a connection between planning for a housing estate and music being over produced, well perhaps I can see what you are saying, but from how I read your statement, you were suggesting that it would be better not to build at all? I'm struggling to see a connection there- apart from perhaps likening your idea to an architectural version of John Cage's 4:33 minutes?
Again I don't see the link. Should we place a piano in the middle of the plot, play one colossal chord, than walk off into the sunset leaving the piano to sustain and then to finally rot away into the ground over then next 500 years? Profound? The very nature of this forum is to design and build, through the medium that has come to be known as "SketchUp'ing". I suppose one could sit in front of a VDU, and simply stare for hours at a blank screen and do nothing....but what would be the point in that?
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@rv1974 said:
I'd highly recommend do not touch the virgin landscape at all. I mean it
Oh not you as well.
Hopw do you expect people to live? In mud huts? Tents? I bet you live in a nice house!?
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@rv1974 said:
У японского туриста, приехавшего в Россию, спрашивают:
- Что Вам больше всего понравилось в нашей стране?
- Мне понравились ваши изумительные дети.
- А что еще понравилось? Не стесняйтесь, говорите!
- У вас замечательные, бесподобные дети.
- Детей мы тоже любим. Дети - наши цветы! А что еще понравилось? Только не стесняйтесь!
- Самое прекрасное у вас - это дети! А то, что вы делаете руками, - это очень-очень плохо.
=
@unknownuser said:
At the Japanese tourist who has arrived to Russia, ask:
- What most of all it was pleasant to you in our country?
- I liked your amazing children.
- And what was pleasant? Do not hesitate, speak!
- At you wonderful, matchless children.
- We too love children. Children - our flowers! And what was pleasant? Only do not hesitate!
- The finest at you are children! And that you do by hands, is very-very badly.
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,
@tfdesign said:@bmike said:
the reason notes have such power in music is because of the spaces in between.
Although in this case, I entirely agree with you ie the relationship in music between the spaces between notes, having more power then when crammed together in something that is over produced. I also agree that there is a very strong connection between music and architecture.
However determining a connection between planning for a housing estate and music being over produced, well perhaps I can see what you are saying, but from how I read your statement, you were suggesting that it would be better not to build at all? I'm struggling to see a connection there- apart from perhaps likening your idea to an architectural version of John Cage's 4:33 minutes?
Again I don't see the link. Should we place a piano in the middle of the plot, play one colossal chord, than walk off into the sunset leaving the piano to sustain and then to finally rot away into the ground over then next 500 years? Profound? The very nature of this forum is to design and build, through the medium that has come to be known as "SketchUp'ing". I suppose one could sit in front of a VDU, and simply stare for hours at a blank screen and do nothing....but what would be the point in that?
In this asylum, everyone builds.
The insane thing to do is the thing that no one is doing.
That is how we would know it is insane. Otherwise, it is business as usual, just another Architecturally Shaped Structure dotting the landscape.But yes, if you must, advocate for more ego vomit all over the landscape.
I'm sure John Cage posted to a forum to source all of his groundbreaking work. -
'Architectural Ideas' don't really exist in the 'real-world'.
Here you have clients and users who want certain things from you as the designer.
Client, 'I want a four bedroom house on this site.'
You, 'No, I'm giving you a piece of untouched marshland.'
That is pretty 'insane', as you are not likely to get many commissions this way, or even realize this one - because someone else will build something for him !
If the client says, 'I want a four bedroom house on this site.'
As a responsible designer you might say, 'Try another site - because this site has rare newts on it and I believe that we'll never get the permissions needed.'... or perhaps 'OK, but what you want and what you need aren't the same thing - I believe that you need three/five bedrooms, a single/two/three story structure etc etc...'
Let's assume that a client comes to you with a parcel of land [that he has just bought, or is about to obtain] and he has no idea what to do with it...
As a responsible designer you should find out where he is coming from, and offer him suitable 'options' - as part of the briefing process, whereby you draw out from the Client and also from others involved ['users' and in the wider community, the planning-dept, the zoning-commission or whatever].
The simplest thing is 'do nothing' - but he's probably just spent money on it and he would have thought of that if that's what he wants to do... then he would have asked 'how do we leave this just as it is / improve it?'
So now you have your range of options, and you need to devise solutions - e.g. no or low impact*** - a nature-park, a timber garden-shed, an underground-house etc; medium impact*** - a modest-house, a farm etc; major impact*** - a new suburb, a microchip-factory, a shopping mall, a nuclear-power-plant, a mile-high tower, a coal-mine, a boating-lake, a golf-course, a trailer-park-brothel, a casino, an asbestos-reprocessing-plant etc etc... ***The 'Impact' varies; an impact on the local/wider community isn't directly related to an impact on the environment... One might be to the detriment of the other OR it might be good/bad for both...
Usually the bigger the impact the bigger the financial cost... BUT you could have a big local/social impact for a low cost [e.g. a brothel in a second-hand trailer], or a low environmental impact at a considerably higher cost - e.g. a major nature-park...
Nothing is simple - nothing is insane.
As a 'project' you need a 'big-idea' as that can be chipped away at and you'll still have something worthwhile, but a puny-idea will be hard to 'build-up' -
@bmike said:
But yes, if you must, advocate for more ego vomit all over the landscape.
Erm, bit confused here..... why are you on a forum that's very nature is about designing and building? It seems rather odd that you are here and not hanging out with all the doom Malthusians on other forums....
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@tfdesign said:
@bmike said:
But yes, if you must, advocate for more ego vomit all over the landscape.
Erm, bit confused here..... why are you on a forum that's very nature is about designing and building? It seems rather odd that you are here and not hanging out with all the doom Malthusians on other forums....
I was offering up 'insane' ideas.
Note that nowhere in the first post did the OP mention program, use, budget, typical resident profile (families, empty nesters, rich hipsters, etc.), history of the parcel, connections to transit, cars, roads, ... (s)he jumped right to wanting to make this 'wow look at the shiny crazy insane thing over there'. No concern for the people who will live with it, live in it, drive by it, walk through it, have to interface with it every day. Architectural Tyranny.
Here's an insane idea - lets find out what the hell the needs are of the site, people expected to live / work / play here, client, and interconnected local community might be. Then lets talk about how those parts inter-relate with the existing site - the ecology, the river, the existing infrastructure. Then lets work up some program for how / what the best uses of the site may be - so we aren't building in the flood plain, or having to design expensive foundations in a seismic zone, or maybe so we respect the natural flow of water on the site. Then lets overlay how people might use whats left over of the site taking those parameters into consideration. Then we can map out potential use areas. Then we can start talking about individual buildings, and what they might look like, how they relate to each other, and how they connect to the greater context of the larger surrounding community(ies).
Otherwise, we'll end up with a tribute to someone's 'insane architectural vision' - with little regards for the people who will spend parts of their lives living in the OPs asylum.
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@bmike said:
Here's an insane idea - lets find out what the hell the needs are of the site, people expected to live / work / play here, client, and interconnected local community might be. Then lets talk about how those parts inter-relate with the existing site - the ecology, the river, the existing infrastructure. Then lets work up some program for how / what the best uses of the site may be - so we aren't building in the flood plain, or having to design expensive foundations in a seismic zone, or maybe so we respect the natural flow of water on the site. Then lets overlay how people might use whats left over of the site taking those parameters into consideration. Then we can map out potential use areas. Then we can start talking about individual buildings, and what they might look like, how they relate to each other, and how they connect to the greater context of the larger surrounding community(ies).
I wouldn't call those "insane". I would have thought that those are rather valid points?
The river is an interesting point. It would be difficult to change the route of the river- but not impossible. Many towns and cities have rivers re-routed. Ecology? Well it's an interesting point, but you could always rip any eco-system out, and let it replenish itself elsewhere- after all most 'natural' eco-systems occurred that way in the first instance.
Earthquake proofing? The Japanese are very good at that. 'Insane' building is one thing, but good engineering practice should go hand in hand. A good trained architect would have taken that into consideration.
Have you considered more obvious things like wind and the weather? What about the soil and therefore foundations? There's a whole lesson on structural engineering learnt over the years to stop the tower in Pisa, Italy from falling over!
Building for flood defences is a really interesting idea too. I think buildings should be built on flood plains (in the interest of human demand and humanitarian need). Houses (like some already in the Netherlands) should be engineered to float, or to stand, perhaps on stilts? When the tide comes in, water doesn't quite reach the house. A car port could be engineered to float as well.
Lots of possibilities!
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@tfdesign said:
I wouldn't call those "insane". I would have thought that those are rather valid points?
Yeah, I was just amazed that folks jumped in with all sorts of 'building' ideas, images, etc. before any of this was discussed. These things that I've mentioned (and many many more) - should inform the building, the materials, the siting, etc.
I'm not suggesting any one of those things I mentioned - just using them as examples as starting places. Context should drive design. Not some 'insane' idea for a form being plopped down on the site.
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@bmike said:
@tfdesign said:
I wouldn't call those "insane". I would have thought that those are rather valid points?
Yeah, I was just amazed that folks jumped in with all sorts of 'building' ideas, images, etc. before any of this was discussed. These things that I've mentioned (and many many more) - should inform the building, the materials, the siting, etc.
I'm not suggesting any one of those things I mentioned - just using them as examples as starting places. Context should drive design. Not some 'insane' idea for a form being plopped down on the site.
But you've got to give a designer credit. If you're given a large empty canvas, the first reaction is to come up with some great design ideas and possibilities. The list of things you provided, although probably most important, will always come second. It's the nature of the game
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@tfdesign said:
@bmike said:
@tfdesign said:
I wouldn't call those "insane". I would have thought that those are rather valid points?
Yeah, I was just amazed that folks jumped in with all sorts of 'building' ideas, images, etc. before any of this was discussed. These things that I've mentioned (and many many more) - should inform the building, the materials, the siting, etc.
I'm not suggesting any one of those things I mentioned - just using them as examples as starting places. Context should drive design. Not some 'insane' idea for a form being plopped down on the site.
But you've got to give a designer credit. If you're given a large empty canvas, the first reaction is to come up with some great design ideas and possibilities. The list of things you provided, although probably most important, will always come second. It's the nature of the game
And thats why I mentioned ego vomit.
What are great design ideas and opportunities without context and use? Empty shells... buildings unrelated to culture, history, environment, use patterns, etc.Architects aren't (or shouldn't be) mad scientist sculptors working in complete isolation from the realities where their 'creations' sit.
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@bmike said:
And thats why I mentioned ego vomit.
What are great design ideas and opportunities without context and use? Empty shells... buildings unrelated to culture, history, environment, use patterns, etc.Architects aren't (or shouldn't be) mad scientist sculptors working in complete isolation from the realities where their 'creations' sit.
"Ego vomit"?
That's a bit extreme isn't it? Ants and termites build constructions. They are being 'close to their nature'. Why not humans? Do termites have councils to discuss whether or not they should demolish someones house by eating through it? Of course not! On the contrary, I think architects should exactly be allowed to behave like "Mad Scientists"! How are we suppose to learn if we are unable to make mistakes? And its a mad scientist like attitude that can unveil quite wonderful discoveries, which can only be a good thing can it not?
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I think there is no such thing as insane architecture. Ants doesn't build insane constructions! Architect could and must have insane ideas on his way to the
architecture, which is never insane. And the magic lies between. -
The 'built-form' springs from 'needs'.
The needs of the site, client, users, society, budget, buildability, safety, regulations etc etc.
Other forms of art, like painting and sculpture, might also have some [if not all] of these needs, BUT they also allow the 'needs' of the artist to be at the forefront - the 'creative' need.
I won't deny that architects are a kind of artist [I'm a BA/BArch/RIBA after all !] but the balance is quite different, as there are many needs including technical ones that they must address in addition to the 'art' [magic]. So a 'good' architect shouldn't impose some 'way-out' [insane?] idea on the rest of us, unless it springs from the addressing of the needs I have outlined. Conversely a painter wouldn't be constrained so much as the 'artistry' [magic] is at the center of his work - and not just one part of it.
I'm a big believer in lateral-thinking and design ideas that come out of left-field... but they must address 'need' - they cannot stand on their own.
Another point is that in both architecture and art itself the emperor's new clothes enigma means that critics now mistake the 'way-out' and 'weird' for 'art' itself, while 'the-man-in-the-street' will often have a diametrically opposed view... -
@unknownuser said:
Another point is that in both architecture and art itself the emperor's new clothes enigma means that critics now mistake the 'way-out' and 'weird' for 'art' itself, while 'the-man-in-the-street' will often have a diametrically opposed view...
well stated.
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How much answers! I'll update first post and answer to questions later. I'll try to give you maximum information about subject.
btw river is not a part of our land.So far you can explore site of housing estates. Its only in Russian, but here is links for parts:
"moscow river 1" - main page for subject land
interactive map
master plan with the cost of marking sites
photos
"photonews"
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