Is the Gallery section starting to resemble 3DWH?
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Mike and All,
I regret somewhat touching off the debate, but it has been interesting to see the differing perspectives.
This is and has always been such a great community - I don't want to see any changes that might limit any participation, or make them feel as if they don't belong. But - I like a couple of the ideas mentioned here, and maybe there is a compromise that would not offend any posters here - but improve the experience. I absoultely think that 95% of the WIP threads here have a value, and in general don't think they need to be relocated. But some guidelines might be in order, after which the moderators would have some basis for dealing with those that stray. WIP's should be clearly identified as such, and should only contain 1 collective work. What I mean by this is to eliminate the individual artist WIP's where they have multiple models added over the course of years and are 57 pages long. Add maybe a button or some type of indicator for posts where the author is asking for and receptive to constructive "critic" of their posted work. Lastly - I like the idea of a seperate "locked" moderated showcase gallery where the mods add a collection of the best work from different fields for all of us to admire.Thanks,
Dean -
True
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It is not really just because of your post now, Dean. This has emerged many times already and as our Gallery section is already the most frequented forum, it will probably not suffer too much from some rationalisation. Before, when the community was smaller, it didn't seem to be reasonable to do this - maybe the time has come.
I would not call it newbie vs. experienced artists or finished stuff vs. WIP's or architecture vs. car modelling or even textured box vs. detailed modelling (both has its place)... What I personally have in mind is to distinguish between a showcase gallery (no matter if the person showcasing makes changes according to the crits - after all that's one reason for posting) and one where models are continuously being developed from almost the beginning (i.e. it is not really gallery stuff in the classic meaning). Also, some people tend to keep all his stuff together no matter if they thematically belong together or not (like see Nacho's 10 page topic with excellent stuff) while others start a new post for each project. I am not sure we should force either solution...
But then again, these are just my thoughts and we have a whole week to think things over.
I also hope no-one will feel bad and I am sure that we can arrange this for the favour of all.
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I think back to the old forum, when everybody was 'pro'. ie: they had paid for it.
After that particular forums' demise, (which I, for one, considered murder most foul),
we, (most of us),rushed here.
To hopefully re-establish the spirit we had enjoyed before.
We/it did, it happened!
Then we had the shock of the free su followed by the dread of the newbie multitudes, come to overrun us.
That happened too, and i have been very impressed by the willingness, patience and good fellowship of you skuppers who engage those with such good humour. (i'm a better person mysel for it).
so, to my point: imho, I believe that we do need some deliniation between those who are serious about su and related things, and those who are...how to say?.... wankers...just ideals. (thanks JM)
rgds,baz
notes:
google shouldnt promote this forum so enthusically, smacks of irresponsibility to me.
pushbullbars' modus operandi has merit, tho it's not for me. 'respec'.
twilight has a 'serious place'
read thread when have time. ") -
What's wrong with the way it is? All I'm hearing at the moment is a load of people who don't like newbies, and so want to get them out of the gallery???
@bytor said:
it is becoming increasingly difficult to find as much "value" for my time while looking through the gallery section.
@unknownuser said:
There is not an ounce of skill in those types of models. I also have stopped commenting on many of the works I have seen here. When I was commenting I was trying to give advice which falls of young deaf ears
@mike lucey said:
How about we change the name of the Gallery to Gallery Showcase or Showcase Gallery and only allow high quality content including Works In Progress by experts.
@mike lucey said:
I have a feeling that some experts are not be too inclined to mix their work with Newbies
@mike lucey said:
If feelings are hurt, so be it
@baz said:
the dread of the newbie multitudes, come to overrun us.
@baz said:
I believe that we do need some deliniation between those who are serious about su and related things, and those who are...how to say?.... wankers...
It seems nobody is seeing this from the "newbie's" perspective. We come on this forum and see a gallery, full of very high quality models and renders. Granted most of them are either buildings or cars, but said newbie decides that he shall post his work to get a response. Now I realise that some people have their head up their arse and get pissed off if they get anything other than pure praise. However, some of these newbies actually come onto this forum to get a proper response from the 'pros'. It seems however that the so called 'wanker' has made the majority of these 'pros' stay away from the newbie threads because they can't be arsed to help anymore? So I ask this: if you're not willing to teach the newbie, then how will newbie learn? Break up the Gallery if you like, but it won't do any good for the less experienced community.
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@hobbnob said:
Break up the Gallery if you like, but it won't do any good for the less experienced community.
Why not ? the less experienced community will learn that to get to the Showcase Gallery requires an special effort.
I mean, for instance, when you enter a Museum you go there to watch, there is not a constant introduction of new paintings all day in the Museum. Paintings on there are quietly shown.
I think that what we are trying to do is to get the Gallery calmed enough to enjoy it and learn quietly.salud
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If the gallery is split between newbies and pro's then the pro's won't help the newbies, plain and simple. pro's will be happy that they are free of said newbie and won't go to the newbie thread to help out, meaning that the situation won't change a single bit.
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so you have not been helped ?
or are you afraid not to be helped anymore ? -
Both tbh, I've been using su for about 4 years now but have only recently started using sucation as a way of reaching out for advice. However, the people from whom I am wanting criticism the most consider themselves too 'expert' to post on a 'wankers' wip thread. Splitting the forum will not make this problem any better, and SuCation will move further away from the less experienced community, leaving a lot of people behind.
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you think creating the Showcase Gallery will leave a lot of people behind ?
On the contrary, make sure that if we get a quiet Gallery where the best is shown, the people that you ask advise from will gladly get to your thread and help you. This has always been a helping hand community. And I think you have to admit that there are levels of knowing and it is always better to take care for the good stuff that we already have and get it safely alone, than to let it die in a mess of trying efforts rehearsal .well, it is my opinion, anyway.
salud -
nice post, ta.
i think yu made my point.. everbody see this from the newbie pov. read the posts bro!!!!
baz -
lol I believe you were the one calling newbies a bunch of wankers. . .
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@Nola: me too, but many people don't. How about this: On 3dVia there is a system where every fortnight or so admins make a top-ten of the models uploaded in that week. Seems a bit farfetched buuuut, my suggestion is keep the gallery as it is, with all wip's and finished models and renders mixed together, then every fortnight or something admins choose a selection of the projects that are in the gallery to be put in a special 'showcase'. This creates the eliteness that the pro's want, and keeps all the pro and other models together that us 'wankers' want (no baz, i'm not letting that go)
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Why, i think that plan is rather outstanding! Great job, Hobbnob!
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Guys don1t get me wrong and don't misunderstand others either; this is not a newbie vs. "old pro" debate. In fact we created the Newbie forum back some three years ago when this forum started to encouragethe newbies to post and help them not be scared away by those more experienced and not to separate them. The normal way living together and working together can only be if we all find some kind of modus vivendi and everyone finds his/her joy (or help or anything) in these forums.
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I am not opposed to keeping WIP's in the gallery, they should just be marked as such. And then have finalized works be posted in the gallery.
My personal preference would be to have people not post WIP's at all. I think people should post with direct questions. If you have a question, post it. Otherwise, wait until the thing is done before you show it off. Because it does get a bit tedious to follow a thread that takes 50 posts to add 25 lines to a model (regardless of skill level or model subject).
So if we do decide that WIP's are awesome and necessary, so be it. I voted to give them their own forum somewhere. If we choose to not give them a forum, lets at least get [WIP] added to all titles so we can easily ignore them, or follow them daily depending on our own preferences.
Chris
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@chris fullmer said:
lets at least get [WIP] added to all titles so we can easily ignore them
My point exactly, people aren't willing to help out anymore.
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Hmm, not necesarily. I've never been a great help in the gallery. Its not where my strength is. I help everyone vey often in pretty much every other forum. Spending time telling people how to light something differently in a model is not something I really enjoy doing. I'm also not that fond of WIP's in general. So I'd rather ignore them. BUT, putting [WIP] in the title (like quite a few people including yourself) are doing makes it easy to ignore WIP threads. AND (this is the part you conveniently ignored in your quote above) it also makes it easy for people who ARE interested in those threads to target them and follow them closely.
How many questions have you answered in the ruby forum? Should I think less of you for it? No, of course not. So please don't think less of me if I choose to stick with what I'm better at.
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That's fair enough Chris, and I am sorry for taking your quote out of context. What I am trying to say is that there are many people out there who are good at modelling on su and who could help out, but they simply don't because they have something against newbies, as many people have said before.
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