What is Style Builder?
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@eric_j said:
Oh, I take it you have a job? So that's easy for you to say. If it isn't obvious how to use a program or what it's suppose to do after 15 minutes of messing around, the PM needs to get canned. This app shouldn't have gone out the door. Period.
Can't say I find that to be a reasonable statement.
AutoCAD, Revit, 3D Studio Max, Revit, PhotoShop, Illustrator, InDesign - with none of these applications you can expect to have a full overview of what they do after 15 minutes. Takes training to learn the tools. Like drawing with pencils - you need more than 15minutes with a pencil to master how to draw skillfully.But I can understand the frustration of application crashes - especially in the face of a deadline. Though, I have the impression that there are more crash issues with SU under OSX. The times a PC user report crashes it's usually a faulty and old graphic driver, but from what I read here on the forum - it's not so easy to update on OSX?
As for style builder - I've never had any use for it. The wast selection of shipping styles have been good enough.
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I didn't say that one should be able to have a full overview of a program in 15 minutes or be able to use them masterfully in that time.
StyleBuilder could start with a perfectly clean, simple building as an example. Hidden, straight lines - the "No Style" style. Then, when you start clicking on stuff, style starts building. When you open your own model, it should begin with where you left off or with the No Style style, and it shouldn't automatically apply the "Blurry Fuzzy Style that you need training to fix," because I can make that style easily enough. As is, the first 15 minute experience led me to believe that I have some sort of incompatible graphics chip or that a software glitch occurred. That's all.
Thanks.
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Chris
I'm sure StyleBuilder does work OK eventually.
But read your previous posts. Architects design buildings. But we have to learn AutoCad, SketchUp, PhotoShop, Illustrator, Revit, & Rhino, for starters, and they take months to get good at, before the vendor changes something.
We're supposed to be making sure that the building works, that it functions properly. That the customers can find the front door and that the bathrooms are accessible and the adjacencies work and that it won't cost too much and that there is enough parking and that it meets code. So what do we spend our time doing? Trying to figure out why our software program keeps crashing when we zoom in, and why this point won't connect with that one. Or why our renders have zaggies, our shaders don't shade or why our topo map doesn't drape. We spend a month modeling a building and then can't output the results properly, due to some obscure behavior by some software that hasn't been updated because the vendor isn't in business anymore or doesn't support the hardware. Patience? I have a lot, but it's not infinite, and this is crazy, it really is.
And does having these skills help you gain employment? No. The AIA can decide who works and who doesn't work, and for any reason at all. Discrimination is blatant - obvious - and the AIA has gone to court to defend the right of its professional member architects to discriminate on the basis of race, religion, ethnicity, age & sexual orientation, which many firms do quite openly. I took the AIA to small claims court to challenge this practice, and they sued me back in superior court to show their appreciation and thanks. What a great bunch, huh? Really makes one proud to be an American architect these days.
Meanwhile, the software companies keep promising how wonderful their stuff is and how much more productive you'll be with the next upgrade, as long as you have patience until the upgrade after that.
So forgive me if I'm pissed off, because I am. StyleBuilder is just one symptom of a much bigger problem.
Cheers!
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Hey Eric, sorry to hear all your woes.
So I posted the first 2 posts, the rest are from other members of the forum. So I think you meant to respond to them, not me.
As for learning so much software? Yes, its a pain. But it comes with the territory of designing these days. So you're going to have to get used to it I'm afraid. Or, decide to not give in to software and just stick to pencils. Either way, just be good at what you do.
As for style builder, you really do not need to use it. It is not terribly important. Use Sketchup to make your model and LayOut to present it if you want. Or make a video, or still images and put them together however you would like. But style builder is not a necessary step in the SketchUp process.
Anyhow, feel free to come here to rant or learn or whatever. But somtimes it can be offputting when someone comes in with a question, and just rants even when valid help is offered.
And for what its worth, I like the way style builder currently works. I would not like it to work the way you described. I prefer it to start without any line work in place. Otherwise I would have to go through and delete all the placeholder linework. And that would be frustrating.
Chris
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@chris fullmer said:
As for style builder, you really do not need to use it. It is not terribly important.
I'd say it's not important at all...!!!
Personally I've never used it myself... Why should I...??There's a lot of pre made styles that comes together with SU...
Add to that all the free styles people upload here at the SCF making them available for me and everyone else to use...
Or make a subscription at Form Fonts and download all the styles they've made...And if all these are not enough, remember that you can mix the styles in SU...
I hate to repeat myself, but like I said in the beginning...
Personally I've never used it myself - and I can add that I don't believe I will ever need to use it...
Just out of curiosity... Why is Stylebuilder so important to you...??
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@chris fullmer said:
Hey Eric, sorry to hear all your woes.
So I posted the first 2 posts, the rest are from other members of the forum. So I think you meant to respond to them, not me.
As for learning so much software? Yes, its a pain. But it comes with the territory of designing these days. So you're going to have to get used to it I'm afraid. Or, decide to not give in to software and just stick to pencils. Either way, just be good at what you do.
As for style builder, you really do not need to use it. It is not terribly important. Use Sketchup to make your model and LayOut to present it if you want. Or make a video, or still images and put them together however you would like. But style builder is not a necessary step in the SketchUp process.
Anyhow, feel free to come here to rant or learn or whatever. But somtimes it can be offputting when someone comes in with a question, and just rants even when valid help is offered.
And for what its worth, I like the way style builder currently works. I would not like it to work the way you described. I prefer it to start without any line work in place. Otherwise I would have to go through and delete all the placeholder linework. And that would be frustrating.
Chris
Thanks for your patience, and sorry to rant. You're right, this is not the right place for some things.
It is difficult to "... just be good at what you do." This is the problem, because it there is so much to have to know. I like learning software, usually, it is interesting and a lot of it is really cool and great. But being good at A through Z doesn't matter at all if you don't have the right driver for your printer or if it doesn't do PostScript or whatever, or if there is some obscure setting buried somewhere that is time-consuming to find. So having to know the vagaries of eight different software - and constantly upgrade them, just to keep them functioning, and just to do what used to be done with a pencil - is quite aggravating.
Currently, for example, I have a pretty good model that I've been working on for some time, but it looks like I will be using a pencil for some things because it will be faster.
As for StyleBuilder, it appears that it opens with the "Foggy Mess" style already applied. How do you get the "No Style" style applied? You have to apply straight lines to the "Foggy Mess" style.
I agree that it is not worth bothering with.
Thanks again.
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@gaieus said:
Eric,
I don't know what you are ranting about with Chris and his valid statement that you don't need to use style builder to model whatever you need to meet the deadline. To tell the truth, I may only have opened it like about 3 or 4 times altogether during those (almost) three years it's been out.
If you have a deadline to meet, model it in SU and use any of the default or pre-made sketchy styles and don't bother with an "addon" that you cannot make use of at this very tight moment. People survived without StyleBuilder much before it was available and could build great models without these fancy effects.
As for declaring that the app shouldn't have got out of the door based on the mere fact that youcannot grasp it within 15 minutes, is so to say a bit bravery.
I agree with the first two paragraphs.
But for you to imply that I am somehow stupid because I did not grasp the non-obvious in 15 minutes is another part of the software equation. "The customer is always an idiot and needs training and we're always right" attitude is arrogant and infuriating. Given what it does, SketchUp is a great program and it makes very complex tasks quite simple. I've had few problems learning how to use it. It is very good, but it didn't get that way by assuming the customer needs training for the simplest of things - that's Autodesk's approach, apparently. Unless the real intent is to get the customer over to UTube, which is another possibility.
But no, it is not "bravery." Stating the obvious is common sense, because the "experts" rarely do.
Obviously, I don't run Google, so what I think - or what you think - is irrelevant, really.
BTW, Gaieus, what is the best style of architecture?
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i think someones thats seems to try to burn everyone that tries to help should NOT be helped. so do everyone here a favor, throw your Sketchup disk in the garbarge and shove your pencil up your... ear!
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Eric J
The best thing I have found about any design software is the online community and SU is the best example of that today.
AutoCAD is a poor example IMO of anything (but it's come along and there are so many resources because of the user base). I don't use it. Just too much more humbug than a person with hand drawing orientation and skill needs. I do use SU and I don't find it to be unstable on my Mac (though SOME here are quick to jump in to point out you should have a PC
). I see your frustration because a "hard" crash is really unusual these days with Macs. But there are a lot of different Mac configurations, of course. If you try to address that problem separately, users here might have a solution.Yes it is really hard using anything for a deadline the first time. I would look for an example (here) of the work, find out what the steps are to a complete output; and, if they seem in reach, first try it out on a simple non-deadline model. See what time it takes as, I think, with modeling you will spend too much time on it in the beginning. It won't pay like your other work for a while. Personally I have only done non-styled SU output to .png files and some SU animation. At present when I want bigger guns I call in a rendering artist (send them the model actually).I've never used style builder, but have downloaded other styles to try that users here have posted.
One technique that I find some skilled drafters use, is to go ahead and finish the project drawing over a print of the model, using the perspective and detail work you've done as a guide and your own artistry and style. Maybe you've done these things already.
But I think this forum is like having an office of helpful and accomplished experts nearby. It really is. And if SU turns out to be your thing, stick around and make some friends.
Good luck,
Peter
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@eric_j said:
@gaieus said:
...As for declaring that the app shouldn't have got out of the door based on the mere fact that youcannot grasp it within 15 minutes, is so to say a bit bravery.
I agree with the first two paragraphs.
But for you to imply that I am somehow stupid because I did not grasp the non-obvious in 15 minutes is another part of the software equation. "The customer is always an idiot and needs training and we're always right" attitude is arrogant and infuriating...
Okay, I think I should back up. I did NOT mean it the way you feel - and if i was misunderstandable, please forgive me (also, sometimes I may be hazy as I am not a native English speaker).
Now as for these styles (again). You need to understand that there are two basic styles in su (since version 6);
- vector based styles (all the default templates are)
- and raster image based style - a very good briefery (I guess there is no such word but I felt like making it) is given here by our most respected member (whom actually I happened to have couple of beers together about a year and a half ago).
And please, again, no offence was meant.
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@xrok1 said:
i think someones thats seems to try to burn everyone that tries to help should NOT be helped. so do everyone here a favor, throw your Sketchup disk in the garbarge and shove your pencil up your... ear!
Thank you for your apology. It's easy to personalize a discussion when the issues shouldn't be personal, and certainly your English is much better than my .. well .. anything other language. When one designs a building, certain stuff has to be intuitively obvious to everyone, so most of us understand user interface stuff. But it looks like I didn't communicate well, either, so my apologies. And I'm not blaming anyone but myself for my printer hardware situation. My fault there.
Thanks for your comments. In fact, I think that drawing over a print is a good way to go. SU is great when it comes to tweaking the perspective and field of view and casting shadows. Hopefully I'll be back when I'm not quite so tense and I'll be more personable.
Is that is your favorite thing to do with a pencil? Perhaps you could demonstrate with a video tutorial. Thanks for the suggestion, but maybe another time.
@ All
Actually, what StyleBuild could do is allow the user to generate architectural styles. Insert generic doors and windows. Click on "Colonial Style, and the windows are divided light double-hung numbers. "Mediterranean" and they're casements. "Ranchburger" gives you aluminum sliders with no casings.
Etc.
If it did that, it would be more than a dust collector, I think.
Later.
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Have a look at some of the styles shared in the Components, Materials and Styles forum to see what people generally use them for. I think these styles are rather more "artistic" than "technical" (in a sense that they are not really aimed to be strictly a way to represent the usual appearance of the drawings of a certain "trade").
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Eric, you appear to be fundamentally misunderstanding the purpose of Style Builder if you are expecting it to actually insert different geometry into a model, such as differing styles of windows etc.
Style Builder…in fact Styles as a whole…have absolutely no effect on the actual geometry at all….any more than rendering in V-Ray would. They are a purely visual effect, just like the various artistic effects filters in Photoshop; and are meant for quick and easy graphical presentation right out of SU (or in Layout) without the need for any other renderer or image editor.
The kind of flipping between Colonial or Mediterranean styles that you give as an example is perfectly possible in SU; but would need to be done using something like the Windowizer script or by constructing custom Dynamic Components that were capable of such quick changes.
Your misapprehension about Style Builder is what had many of us so puzzled. We couldn’t figure out why on earth you seemed to be fixated on something that is little more than eye candy when up against a deadline. The fact that it is just a visual effect is why many people have already stated (and I’m another one) that they have either very little use for it or, in fact, have never used it at all.
Personally, I construct everything in the default style…with no sky, ground or even profile lines…and have no use for anything else.
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@eric_j said:
@ All
Actually, what StyleBuild could do is allow the user to generate architectural styles. Insert generic doors and windows. Click on "Colonial Style, and the windows are divided light double-hung numbers. "Mediterranean" and they're casements. "Ranchburger" gives you aluminum sliders with no casings.
Etc.
If it did that, it would be more than a dust collector, I think.
Sounds like Dynamic Components are a good candidate for that.
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