Mac v Win
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@mike lucey said:
xrok1,
One needs a reasonable understanding of a subject before you can debate it. Calling another's thoughts 'bullshit' does not cut it.
Mike (my REAL name
)i wasn't calling your thoughts bullshit anymore than you're calling me stupid, i was saying that corporate America having a "conscience" is bullshit. but i guess if you believe that.....
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Guys,
I recently did a quick comparison between a 17" Dell Precision M6400 and the New 17" MacBook Pro cost wise. The following is how it panned out.
Dell Precision M6400 Covet Mobile Workstation
2.4 Intel Core 2 Duo
4GB,1066MHz DDR3 SDRAM
1920x1200 17in Back-Lit Display
200GB SATA Hard Drive
8X DVD+/-RW Drive Slot Load with Optical Media Included
512MB NVIDIA Quadro FX2700M€ 2,499
MacBook Pro 17"
2.66 Intel Core 2 Duo
4GB 1066MHz DDR3 SDRAM - 2x2GB
1920 x 1200 Glossy Widescreen Display
320GB Drive
SuperDrive 8x (DVD±R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW)
NVIDIA GeForce 9400M + 9600M GT with 512MB
Built-in 8-hour battery
AppleCare Protection Plan for MacBook Pro (w/or w/o Display)€2,344
I also advise that more than likely the Dell would be worth €500ish after 2 years (id possible to sell) whereas the Mac could be worth in the region of €1,000 and probably a lot easier to sell to graphic / design students.
I think the demonstrates that Macs are not expensive when compared fairly.
Mike
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did you compare the value of being able to run 10x more apps. on the PC? Sorry, I couldn't resist, OK i'm done now. Can we move on to a less controversial discussion about religion or politics now? LOL
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xrok1,
I like nothing better than a good old debate. I can hit low at times but dont't take any notice.
On the matter of there being x10 the number of application available for PCs, I agree with you, there are. However I honestly feel that Mac Apps are of a higher quality. So its a matter of 'never mind the width, feel the quality!'
But again I can run all of these Win apps on the Mac under Bootcamp and probably faster than I can on a PC.
Ckeck!
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just the fact that mac has numerous windows emulators and windows has no mac emulators says it all.
check mate!
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What I don't get is if a Mac is better value for money (see above comparison) and it is bettr built, more stable, and can run widows apps better than windows using basecamp then why the heck do they only have 10% market share?
In my experiance they are well built, very appealing to look at, work great straight out of the box and have less malware. But for serious work with a zillion open apps, internet, network, usb gadgets all working at the same time it shows it's limits. As for malware, there is no point in writting and releasing malware for such a small market, hence they don't bother.
This is not a debate that can ever be won or lost, it's a matter of choice, I chose both, but prefer my PC's for work and Mac for play.
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well said, in a perfect world we'd only need to decide what color of computer we wanted, the rest would just work for us and we could concentrate on what we are doing not what we're doing it on.
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O
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Jeff, This shows that it is possible to run OSX on a PC. There are ways to do this via software and by using a plug in card but both are illegal.
xrok1, I understand Windows does run natively under Bootcamp. The Apple OS is ONLY for Macs
Coming back to the point about Big Corporations not being honorable. I know this is the general perception and there is good reason for this. But
I believe Apple is an exception. They appear not to let greed govern their drive to make money. I think its more a case of producing quality products and letting the public decide. Although Ross may have a different opinion on this these days but I imagine he will forgive and forgetI strongly suggest that if you have not tried out a Mac you should give it a go. It does take a week to get used to the system but after a month most don't want to go back to PCs.
Pete, I think the reason Apple only have 10% of the market is because they decided not to open the doors to other companies to make clones. They did for a while but changed their minds as the clone quality was not the best. All PCs are IBM Clones. IBM opened the doors back in the 80s.
AutoCAD IMO did much the same thing in the CAD world when it allowed other companies make add ons. I think MicroCAD (now a little known program), a 3D application which was up and running at the same time as AutoCAD was spreading its wings would now be the No.1 in the world of draughting if it went 'open doors'.
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Alas, I agree that we're both right. And I concede that IF you could get the exact same progs for either system AND
I could get a mac for the same price as an hp, I'd probably be typing on a mac if for no other reason than they are damn cool. -
xrok1,
I think I getting close to converting you! I'll 'plant' one last seed. You mentioned the cost of a HP. Okay lets look at the cost of ownership over a 3 year period and see how it pans out.
What model HP would you consider going for?
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LOL, ok, I'll play.
I have an hp1701n $899, plus a nvidea 8600GT $89.
So $1000.BTW, have you seen the MasterCard commercials?
(price of HP computer $899; price of video card $89; price of being able to run any software you like: PRICELESS)
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I'll do a few calcs and see what happens but its too late for it now so it will be tomorrow
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There is one thing that Mac's suck with, the Mac standard shipped mouse, what's up with the nipple?
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You can use any mouse you want...
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@solo said:
:roflmao:
There is one thing that Mac's suck with, the Mac standard shipped mouse, what's up with the nipple?
I could not agreee more with you Pete. The Mighty Mouse looks and feels like a bar of soap! Who ever designed it should study some basic ergonomics
MicroSoft RULE when it comes to mose design for the masses
I currently use the MS Mobile Memory 3000 and find it perfect 
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I just bought some more ram for my imac, and the Mac technician said that Apple is considering quad cores for the next imac releases. He also said the new mac osx release (snow leopard) will be out this summer. Two interesting tidbits
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I will buy a laptop soon and I am sure it won't be Mac. I think it is especially good for those who has no clue how to maintain their soft and hardware. Nice and simple solution, but hugely overpriced.
I am not an expert, but for me Quadro is way stronger vs 9600 GT (9400 is not being used in parallel).
No one will convince me that it is worth paying twice as much for Mac (My laptop will have similar spec to Mac 17 Pro). For me it is just a matter of prestige, being 'cool'. There are people willing and being able to pay for it.
Tomasz
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Prices straight from manufacturers' websites:
MacBook Pro 17-inch
2.66GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
4GB Memory
320GB hard drive
NVIDIA GeForce 9400M + 9600M GT with 512MB
No internal optical drive
£1949
3 year extended warranty excluding accidental damage- £273
Total= £2222http://store.apple.com/uk/browse/home/shop_mac/family/macbook_pro?mco=MTI4MDI
HP dv7-1050ea 17-inch
2.26 Ghz Intel Core 2 Duo
4GB Memory
500 GB
NVIDIA GeForce 9600M GT
Blu-Ray ROM with SuperMulti DVD±R/RW Double Layer
£ 1069
3 year extended warranty including accidental damage- £155
Total= £1224http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/uk/en/ho/WF06a/321957-321957-3329744-64354-64354-3744231.html
I've heard that you can buy and fit OEM RAM for Macs yourself (can anyone confirm this?), but just for comparison Apple will charge you an extra £840
to bump the Powerbook up to 8GB RAM, whereas the first price I found for the equivalent upgrade for the PC is £446- that aint no small potatoes.The Powerbook is unquestionably the more powerful of the two, Apple's build quality and QA is far superior (and this particular hp model hasn't had the best reviews to be honest) and it weighs about two thirds of the hp, but if I was looking for a laptop to use in my daily work, there's no question that the pc would be my choice, if only because effectively it's 95% as powerful as the Powerbook, 500% as useful (app-wise) and more or less half the price. Looking at it another way, if I was looking for a small portable office setup that I'd use for mostly modelling and rendering for £226 more than the cost of the Powerbook I could buy TWO of the hp machines which would
a) take care of me and a colleague and/or
b) be a pretty powerful, yet extremely compact and efficent render farm with approximately >180% of the speed of the one Powerbook and/or
c) be a desktop for the office plus a portable workstation for presentations, etc and/or
d) allow for almost zero down-time when anything does go wrong with one of the machines and it has to be serviced, repaired or recovered as you just switch to the other one and/or
e) allow for completely swappable (and of course cloneable) harddrives in the event of hardware, firmware or OS failure. Cloning the harddrive of one machine after it's set up properly with all major apps and updates installed could even save 1 or 2 days of setup time for the second machine.
Yep, no surprises that I'm a PC fanboy, but I just prefer to spread my money around rather than put it all in one company's coffers and for me the cons of a less stable/reliable platform are far outweighed by the pros of cost vs. power, self-reliance and tweakability which appeals to the I-like-to-take-things-apart-to-see-how-they-work part of my brain.
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