Construction & Working Drawings - Discussion
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Well, the last time I commented on this thread was back in 2009!!! and I have not really used SketchUp in any real way since I gave up on layout back then. But I have been using it for the last month or so mainly on the project below. It is a small domestic extension that is being adapted for disabled use. Its for a very good friend of mine who has no clue about reading 2D CAD plans and his Mrs is even worse!
To cut a long story short I did the model in SketchUp so they could understand what was going on and have input. Then it came time to prepare for drawings to be done. I stuck with SketchUp only because I had invested a load of time and effort up to that point and didn't want to start from scratch in AutoCAD.
Its taken be a good while to figure out Layout and how to get around things. I think I have spent more time in Layout than SketchUp, unlike AutoCAD where very little time was spent in paper space. I have found that the dimensioning side of things is utter rubbish. Why is it associated with the shape style dialog? Why has it got to have a dim format? I have to edit single dimension to get rid of the "mm" reference. The shape style would be 100% better if you could FILL with an image or tiled image as well as just plain colours. This would help massively on cross sections and with hatch patterns etc. Unless there is a way and I haven't figured it out yet?
I'm still learning new bits & short cuts every day with layout. One thing I did find out is that it is easier to use 3 or so models instead of just one cluttered model with umpteen hidden layers/styles/scenes etc and reference each of the models at a specific stage of the drawings.
If anyone has any tips on speeding things up, I'm all ears
Gaz...
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I think those drawings are beautiful! - Especially sheets 3 & 4. While getting used to Layout does take time, I think the graphic output possibilities are far superior then ACAD drawings.
Regarding Dimensions - I think I remember someone saying you can create your own template. I need to do this as well.
Regarding Hatch - color is the only option right now. Hatches would be nice, but I do not mind the look of color transparencies to define "hatched areas".
I am also finding that my output in raster set on high, prints extremely fine line work. Fine enough that I am foregoing vector output at this point. Doing so helps eliminate the need for hatch as you can define hatches and materials in the model that appear only in raster mode. Right now, I am leaning to only running vector drawings when I need to export an ACAD file for my poor structural engineers still using Revit and ACAD.
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Gaz,
Those drawings look great, and pretty bold to be using those 3d styles and artistic layout for construction drawings. 3d floor framing with shadows? Thanks for posting! Now I know better how boring my drawings are. (Once in a while I put in a 3d detail.)
You guys may be interested in this: [Plugin] Hatchfaces (v1.6 beta) http://forums.sketchucation.com/viewtopic.php?f=323&t=38637&start=0&hilit=hatch+plugin
Peter
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Sonder,
Like you, It's still a big learning curve for me. Knowing what I know from this drawing I will tackle the next SU model/Layout differently. The output was also a bit of an issue for me. These drawings have had to be raster because of the styles & shadows etc, but exporting on HIGH level the PDF file was around 28Mb. The same file in AutoCAD would be around 700-800kb. So I have had to export MEDIUM (11Mb) just so I can submit it to the local authority (20Mb file size limit)
The 3D construction I spent a bit of time on. The reason is the "Blocks" I have created can be used unlimited times on future drawings except maybe the "roof lantern roof joist" I have even created all the wall straps, joist hangers, truss clips etc. So the next project will have these blocks inserted and just reference to from the SU model. So this should mean less work on future projects???
Thanks for the hatch plugin link, I will have a look at that. I must point out that I don't use any plugins, scripts or additional toolbars at all. I just use it out of the box and as is. Styles & materials are my only additions to SketchUp.
Gaz...
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How are you guys dealing with printing 24x36 in color?
I use color codings with my shop drawings and the boys really like how it works. I have been putting everything on 8.5x11 sheets so we could print them easily. But, it is a whole lot more work making myriad small sheets instead of a few big ones and I would love to migrate to the larger format.
The local printer priced each 24x36 in color at $40
as opposed to $1.50 for standard laser printed greyscale.Thoughts?
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@unknownuser said:
How are you guys dealing with printing 24x36 in color?
I use color codings with my shop drawings and the boys really like how it works. I have been putting everything on 8.5x11 sheets so we could print them easily. But, it is a whole lot more work making myriad small sheets instead of a few big ones and I would love to migrate to the larger format.
The local printer priced each 24x36 in color at $40
as opposed to $1.50 for standard laser printed greyscale.Thoughts?
Your local printers are behind a bit, not as expensive here (but grayscale is 2.50). If you wish to print yourself, look at HP111 series for an inexpensive but fine solution.
In these tight times, I print many jobs from my plotter and charge the same fee as the printers would. Prints are always reimbursable. -
@zx10r_gaz said:
The same file in AutoCAD would be around 700-800kb. So I have had to export MEDIUM (11Mb) just so I can submit it to the local authority (20Mb file size limit)
You submit pdf's? We are so backwards. Always wet signed paper here. Last week I saw a guy in the building dept. with a dolly full of multiple rolls of plans and boxes of calcs, and he was still going out for more stuff.We're not talking skyscrapers here.
@zx10r_gaz said:
I must point out that I don't use any plugins, scripts or additional toolbars at all. I just use it out of the box and as is. Styles & materials are my only additions to SketchUp.
Gaz...
even more impressive!
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@unknownuser said:
How are you guys dealing with printing 24x36 in color?
I use color codings with my shop drawings and the boys really like how it works. I have been putting everything on 8.5x11 sheets so we could print them easily. But, it is a whole lot more work making myriad small sheets instead of a few big ones and I would love to migrate to the larger format.
The local printer priced each 24x36 in color at $40
as opposed to $1.50 for standard laser printed greyscale.Thoughts?
Hi Chuck:
That price they are quoting is insane. Are they using a plotter or an OCE printer or are they printing it black and white and using crayons? My cost from my local printer (and I live in the sticks) is $8 per sheet on 20lb stock. I also have a large format plotter that I use for in house use only. Otherwise everything gets printed at the shop and charged to the client as a direct cost. The only time I plot in full color is for the building department permit sets, the owner's set and one color set for the contractor. Otherwise everything is printed grayscale which still looks great.
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@zx10r_gaz said:
Sonder,
Like you, It's still a big learning curve for me. Knowing what I know from this drawing I will tackle the next SU model/Layout differently. The output was also a bit of an issue for me. These drawings have had to be raster because of the styles & shadows etc, but exporting on HIGH level the PDF file was around 28Mb. The same file in AutoCAD would be around 700-800kb. So I have had to export MEDIUM (11Mb) just so I can submit it to the local authority (20Mb file size limit)
Gaz...Are you booking or creating individual sheets. I don't think my individual sheets hit the 20mb file size, but I will check. Reno, Nevada, where I do some work, also requires submission of PDF's instead of paper. Very smart and forward thinking. I wish more departments would use this. Heck all the contractors I work with often refer to the pdf drawings over paper.
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@unknownuser said:
Here are a couple more samples - Maybe show your office you are not alone in your thoughts. To me this was a no brainer and I have been using ACAD for more than 20 years.
Hey Sonder,
This work is really inspirational!!! I have been doing commercial interiors for about 12 years now. I took the entire summer to learn how to use SU/LO. I just took on my first residential remodel project and I am hoping to be able to do the entire set in SU/LO. I am definitely not going to be as efficient or as fast as I am working in ACAD.... But, I really want to push my abilities with SU/LO. One thing I have been really beating my head with are site plans. Your post is an amazing example of a site plan. Mainly because of the different line types and weights you are using. Are you drawing these in SU or LO? I originally drew my site plan in SU. But they are just solid lines. I know I can bring the model into LO and "explode" it and then convert the lines to different line types/weights in LO. But, this seems to really defeat the purpose. Can you share the method you are using to create your site plans? Thanks!
P.s. horrible snow fall this year huh?
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Hi Sawyer:
Yes, snow is lacking badly. Looks like it will finally change towards the end of the week.
As for the site plan, the line work - property lines, setbacks, tree graphic & notation are all in Layout. Everything else is in sketchup. I generate all my site topography from drawings provided by a land surveyor. Since that work is imported into sketchup, it is a simple matter of copying it into LO. If you have the scale set, it comes in at the correct scale and easily pastes over the model since all the geometry exists in the model. It is still a work in progress for me also.
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Actually, Sonder, now that I think of it, I have no idea how you approach this. You copied objects in SU and set over the model in LO--getting linework you can modify with the shape style? I get different results if I do a copy from SU.
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@pbacot said:
Actually, Sonder, now that I think of it, I have no idea how you approach this. You copied objects in SU and set over the model in LO--getting linework you can modify with the shape style? I get different results if I do a copy from SU.
Yes that is correct. You copy line work from the SU model and paste it into Layout. When you do this, LO recognizes it as a SU model. You then set it as Vector rendering. Then you explode it. It remains grouped, and you can edit the line type through Shape Style as well as move the group together. This is especially helpful for property lines, setbacks and contour lines.
The trick to make it easy, is you copy line work from the same scene that is saved in SU and is depicted in the specific LO drawing. That way when you paste it as an overlay in LO it retains orientation and scale, making for very easy placement. So if you have a scene named "Site Plan" in SU, make sure you are copying line work directly from the saved view. I typically use layers to isolate specific items like contour lines, setbacks and property lines, so it is really easy to isolate that line work in a specific scene for copying.
There are a few steps, but it works really well. I hope that makes sense.
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@unknownuser said:
Hi Chuck:
That price they are quoting is insane. Are they using a plotter or an OCE printer or are they printing it black and white and using crayons? My cost from my local printer (and I live in the sticks) is $8 per sheet on 20lb stock. I also have a large format plotter that I use for in house use only. Otherwise everything gets printed at the shop and charged to the client as a direct cost. The only time I plot in full color is for the building department permit sets, the owner's set and one color set for the contractor. Otherwise everything is printed grayscale which still looks great.
Yeah, that was what I thought. It is a plotter printer they are using.
Guess I need to look around and explore out of town options. Ah the joys of living in a small town:)
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@pbacot said:
Your local printers are behind a bit, not as expensive here (but grayscale is 2.50). If you wish to print yourself, look at HP111 series for an inexpensive but fine solution.
In these tight times, I print many jobs from my plotter and charge the same fee as the printers would. Prints are always reimbursable.Thanks for the suggestion; I will look into that printer.
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@unknownuser said:
@pbacot said:
Actually, Sonder, now that I think of it, I have no idea how you approach this. You copied objects in SU and set over the model in LO--getting linework you can modify with the shape style? I get different results if I do a copy from SU.
Yes that is correct. You copy line work from the SU model and paste it into Layout. When you do this, LO recognizes it as a SU model. You then set it as Vector rendering. Then you explode it. It remains grouped, and you can edit the line type through Shape Style as well as move the group together. This is especially helpful for property lines, setbacks and contour lines.
The trick to make it easy, is you copy line work from the same scene that is saved in SU and is depicted in the specific LO drawing. That way when you paste it as an overlay in LO it retains orientation and scale, making for very easy placement. So if you have a scene named "Site Plan" in SU, make sure you are copying line work directly from the saved view. I typically use layers to isolate specific items like contour lines, setbacks and property lines, so it is really easy to isolate that line work in a specific scene for copying.
There are a few steps, but it works really well. I hope that makes sense.
Thanks for the more detailed explanation! This helps alot!
Cheers!
Jonathan
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Once I figured out that worked, it convinced me to completely drop ACAD. That was a decision that did not come lightly with all my libraries, .lsp routines and standards that I established over the past 12 years. I always wondered why ACAD did not have an interface that was WYSIWYG. I also could not understand or justify the cost per seat. Heck the annual subscription is as much as SU Pro. The other little tid bit that makes a huge difference in workflow is establishing your scrapbooks. It basically becomes your own personal check list of items in a specific drawing. I love how you can build on it from any drawing your working on.
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@lapx said:
Love your work and style sonders! Everyone is pushing revit including consultants because its BIM capabilities which sketcup is not strongly suited with these characteristics at present. I'm sure one day maybe but currently schedules, takeoffs, referencing,interferencing is not addressed adequaltely I presume? How do you deal with some of the timesavers that are highly dependable in BIM programs not to mention coordinaton with other consultants who may not use sketchup.
This is perhaps the biggest reason people continue to use autcad products because its easier to trade files with everyone else w/o having to deal with conversions. We work on 10s of million dollar projects. It would be virtually impossible to do this work exclusively using su it seams. I wish!Thanks,
I agree, that is Revits strong suit. However, if you use components wisely, you can track doors, windows etc. I am sure someone could come up with a Ruby to quantify them into a schedule. As for material and area Takeoffs, sketchup is wonderful at that and can quantify material areas much better than Revit. Referecing is more than adequate. Comparing the two graphically, IMHO isn't even close. Revit is really far behind. As for coordinating with consultants, I export a DWG from LO (takes seconds)and have heard no complaints at all.
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New User here.
I am a graduating Civil Engineer and have been using Sketchup for a while now to create basic layouts and photo-realistic renderings. However, I believe my abilities can be greatly increased when it comes to the presentation of my Layout designs.
I was wondering, how is it that you're able to get rendered layout designs? Most of my layout designs are using the basic Sketchup model details; all the layouts that really impress me have great material/photo-realistic properties.
Furthermore, as an Engineer our curriculum does not revolve around nice layouts - they're usually cut-and-dry (see autocad dwgs). Is there any rule-of-thumb that might help make my layouts more appealing (e.g isometric views, etc)
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