Impressive Sketchup House model needed
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@remus said:
But what do you lose by letting him use your work?
Let's say there is this cab guy who always does airport duty and you know that by now 'coz you travel out of town often. One day you flag a cab to go to the airport and it happens to be this guy. So you tell him, "Since you are going back to the airport anyway, take me there for free". He wouldn't agree, but why?
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@unknownuser said:
Let's say there is this cab guy who always does airport duty and you know that by now 'coz you travel out of town often. One day you flag a cab to go to the airport and it happens to be this guy. So you tell him, "Since you are going back to the airport anyway, take me there for free".]
Not quite what he was asking...
However if you added that the guy asking for the free ride works in a large office with many folk that need rides to the airport from time to time and you said you would pass the word and his details around to those people then you would have a similar situation.
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I ask myself what would be a reasonable remuneration for use of an image in a book like this.
Personally I reckon if it was an exceptional design and visual, $500 should be reasonable. This would equate to $0.0017 per copy on a cycle of 300000.
If he had 200 such images it would only equate to $0.33 per book.Paying for 200 images upfront would be non-viable but a royalty arrangement based on sales would make a lot of sense (and cents!) for everybody.
- Would be interesting to hear some other points of view relating to the value of such an element.
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Seems to me that Kent's request might appeal to someone's vanity. Someone might enjoy having their model featured in a book. It seems unlikely to me that the 'credit' would ever result in any work -- unless as Mike notes you were in the pre-designed houseplans business. I suspect the demographics of people reading Kent's book are very unlikely to contact an architect half way around the world. I'd suggest they are even less likely to contact a freelance illustrator. (Perhaps different if it were a book about illustration). If Kent's offer did appeal to someone's vanity, and they responded, they might still get some marketing value out of the book. For instance, by having a copy of the book in your meeting room you could show it to new clients and perhaps gain some additonal measure of confidence. Just as there is similar value in having your projects published in journals, so too could there be value in being featured in Kent's book. When published in an architectural journal you may get some respect from your peers but it is unlikely you'll get more customers. Those you do get however may be impressed that you are published. So if I'm correct, the value is really in what you'd make of it.
Kent - Welcome to these forums.
You note that manufacturers are letting you use their pictures etc for free. Shouldn't they really be paying you something to feature their products. At least take the starving writer to lunch or offer items you can use as prizes when you promote the book. Something? Anything? Just think of all those DIY shows on TV paid for by sponsors.Regards, Ross
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Other than the adsense ads, what are you referring to kwist? Im genuinely interested to hear.
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@remus said:
Other than the adsense ads, what are you referring to kwist? Im genuinely interested to hear.
The advertisement signatures people add to the bottom of each of their messages.
If it is just a website link, I am fine with it, but lately some are full blown ads to sell products.
They are difficult to ignore and sometimes kind of 'in-your-face'.Also, threads that are advertisement in disguise.
If it is a product announcement, I am fine with it, as long as it is made clear. -
Huh, I hadn't noticed any big advertising sigs. I'll have to pay attention more,
Chris
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What Kent is doing happens all the time. There are hundreds/thousands of design books and magazines published every year where designers and manufacturers provide freebies in return for exposure.
There are lots of regular contributors to this forum who use it to promote their personal businesses through links either as signature add-ons or as part of a post solution and nobody complains about that. It seems that because Kent isn't a member of the 'club' he's being vilified for doing something that is commonly exploited.
Perhaps it's time to stop allowing anyone to add a commercial context to their posts and make it a truly non-profit forum.
If you don't want to do it, then pass. -
@kwistenbiebel said:
Also, threads that are advertisement in disguise.
If it is a product announcement, I am fine with it, as long as it is made clear.Kwist, we truely try to work agains it and often make things clear with posters like that in the background. You cannot really complain for the forums being overwhelmed with mere "promotional" posts (I just removed one last week for instance).
The forum is set that anyone can only have one link in their signatures. Use it for whatever you wish (me for a "trouble shooting email link" for instance and as SCF responses are returned in the Google SketchUp Help Center search results, you can imagine the number of help requests I receive daily).I don't want to mention the AdSene now - it hardly covers the server costs. If only we could get along without it.
@double espresso said:
Perhaps it's time to stop allowing anyone to add a commercial context to their posts and make it a truly non-profit forum.
I know it's kind of a joke but surely, apart from "how to model this in (pure, native) SketchUp", many other topics could be removed. Mentioning a render engine in the Gallery?
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@ross macintosh said:
...So if I'm correct, the value is really in what you'd make of it.
That probably is the statement we are looking for.
For Solo, giving it as a freebie might be an extra opportunity to get publicity, while Toxicvoxel did the calculation.I would settle for Toxics approach.
@Sorgesu,
I apologise for giving you the feeling I was going personal.
As I ran my own business, I know how much needs to be done to get your product/services sold.
The message I was trying to communicate is that I am not so fond about this forum becoming a place where everybody is constantly selling their product. SCF is not eBay.
To me, there is a lot of emphasis on that lately here on SCF. -
Just a thought. Why not have a forum section where people could promote themselves? That way, anyone who did not want to be bothered by such rampant commercialism could ignore that section all together. The only additional rule required would be that the commercial aspect must have some relationship to Sketchup (i.e. selling entourage would be OK, but selling cars would not!)
Perhaps the posts in this section could be automatically deleted after a sufficient period (6 months?)
And maybe only members who have made a meaningful contribution to SCF would be allowed to post there.
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There was such a forum at one point, although it was removed for reasons i cant remember.
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It was also removed from the Google Sketchup Help Groups (previously @Last Pro forums) and is hre now:
http://groups.google.com/group/sketchup-jobs?hl=en&lnk= -
I have made an earlier suggestion that the forum includes an 'affilliates' shop, simmilar to that offered by PLIMUS (no advertisement honestly) from which the forum could earn commission on sales of commercial products linked to the forum eShop. This could provide a platform for product announcements and promotions so that these do not have to clutter the regular forums. Members would support such a venture with the knowledge that they are contributing to the development and maintenance of the SCF forums. If it makes any money on top of the overheads it could be used to support some of the community project ideas that have been suggested. There may be a need for some transparency though - but that's another issue.
Despite a declared interest, I also find the technology discussions relating to various software and hardware products add some value to my experience as a Sketchup user and a consumer of these forums.
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in my years as an architect i have had several propositions that would, in the end, "give me exposure and bring me lots of work". once it was an offer to publish in Vogue-Brasil (paying $5.000 for it), many other times it meant charging less or nothing for projects that would "make my name" or be the "first step in a sequence of commmissions".
fortunately, my vanity was not big enough to fall for the vogue trap but i did design a few buildings at much less then the normal fee. of course, doing that brought me nothing more than disrespect. the client who paid me X demanded of me the same service he would get for 10X.
to contribute work for free to something which is a commercial venture sounds strange, to say the least. would anyone go after me because of a model published in book so and so? i doubt it. any kind of payment, as symbolic as it may be, could give this proposition a better appearance.
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Well said Edson
I experienced this myself as well.
The ironic thing is that getting paid the right amount, earns you the respect of the client, while 'bending over' for a client creates disrespect.Concerning 'common policy' in the publishing business, getting your book content for free: it is not because it is common that it makes it a good thing to get involved in.
Things like crime, sigarets, etc are also commonly spread...but not that good for your health.It is not an ethical business policy to earn money while not considering the people that contribute to it.
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The thing is though, he didn't specifically ask any one in particular to go out of their way to make something for free for him. He asked if anyone had something already built he could use. So it would be a model someone had already been paid to make, and he just wants to use it for images in a book. For which he will pay in advertising.
Again though, I would not do it because I don't fit the profile of who he's looking for as apparently most of us don't. And I also agree that a bit of money $100US would probably have been enough to quiet most of the original complaints.
Still, if you are looking for free advertising, its not that bad of a deal......maybe. Its not worth chasing him off the forum for sure. I hope he comes back.
Chris
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I feel bad now. An associate sent me some chapters of a new textbook which have to do with SketchUp. I edited them and offered him some suggestions. I should have asked for a cut of those astronomical profits he is going to enjoy
Al Hart
IRender nXt from Render Plus -
Seems to me the target of this "debate" was, as is so often the case, way off target.
The common not-so-misconception that architects will do work for free is driven not by ignorance on the part of clients, but on anti-competitive unprofessional behaviour within the architecture profession. All too often the (not always, but often) less talented architect practices choose to undercut their competitors, just to get the job and the client (and of course to deny their competitors the same). Here in Sweden there has been a very public case of a huge development/construction firm (with a small in-house architect department) who won an important national competition largely on the basis that their fees were so low that they openly admitted they would actually make a loss on the project. No independant architecture firm could even consider reducing their fees to such levels. The only people who benefit from this sort of behaviour are the property developers, who just sit back and watch the money roll in while the architects work themselves into an early grave hoping that one day all these freebies will pay off and someone will offer them amazing fees for a fantastic project as a big karmic thank you for all their years of voluntary work... as if.
In other words, I'm not as offended by potential clients asking for freebies/discounts as I am by the architects-next-door who will ingratiatingly oblige them, demeaning the entire profession and blighting the urban and rural landscapes with their formulaic "Designed" knock-offs.
Kent,
If you're still reading, sorry this thread went so off-topic, but I don't think I've derailed it any further. Although it obviously wasn't your intent, but you inadvertantly planted the seed of an issue which, especially in these financially challenging times needs to be discussed openly IMO. Although it may not seem that way, I read this whole thread, am familiar with almost all of the contributers and can assure you that there's not one mean-spirited character amongst them, I guess everyone's nerves are just a little raw under the current circumstances. -
@unknownuser said:
I read this whole thread, am familiar with almost all of the contributers and can assure you that there's not one mean-spirited character amongst them...
Jackson, are you trying to ruin my reputation or what? Please don't stereotype me with other members of this forum.
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