SU8 - WISHLIST
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chrisglasier, I do like the idea of yours. at the moment the warehouse is fairly messy. it would be so much more convenient if there was a section for commercial models (not models you have to pay for - but models of manufacturers that are sorted by brand and/or item).
I think that would not at all undermine the creative aspect of SketchUp. you can still model whatever you like. but if you are in a hurry and need to put some furniture into a scene or if you have a specific piece of furniture in mind, it would be a great help to have structured libraries in the warehouse.when I had a look at the beta of Bonsai 3D, I was a bit shocked - because that little application showed me how limited SketchUp really is. in the few moments between crashes of Bonsai 3D tools such as the 'bend tool' the 'round edges' tool or the 'twist tool', alongside with the truly fantastic real-time boolean operations (that are so much cleverer than what SU does), showed quite plainly how far SketchUp still has to go.
granted, SketchUp's ease of use with simple geometry is great and the fast and intuitive way of nested structuring is absolutely fantastic. and above all the inference engine is phenomenal.
but using SketchUp (without the numerable plugins) is like sculpturing a block of wood with a carving knife. eventually you will manage to produce almost everything. but with additional tools, a saw, a chisel or a grinding machine for example, you could have been so much faster!
Bonsai 3D provides these additional tools (probably because it has the advantage of NURBS instead of polygons) - but on the lowest level of modelling it just can't live up to SketchUp.the goal for the future should be to get SketchUp to the next level of complexity without making the User Interface more complex. that sounds difficult; but it is definitely possible!
Google, you have been challenged by Bonsai 3D. you have been shown quite clearly what SketchUp lacks. but I think you still have got a decent head start. don't waste it!
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@chrisglasier said:
@solo said:
Chris, if I am reading you right you are in essense saying you would like manufacturers to make the components complete with all the info and specs and SU to be a program that users can select and paste those models into scenes?
YES
NO!
Don't do that. It will be the end of Sketchup Pro as a serious tool.(Ok, it could do that.....but just as side feature.)
@Plot-Paris: Indeed, SU would be nice with some extra tools like Bend, Twist etc...
But do you still think these things will ever happen? Yes, maybe, without G fixing the core, as they apparently won't, which would leave us with a feature packed modeler, but one that runs like a dead horse.
I think Gaieus told between the lines some weeks ago we didn't need to worry as he guessed a SU update would arrive shortly, one that possible would adress the main issues. Since then, there IS a SU update...but nothing on the horizon that shows us real improvement.
No roadmap, no nothing. Do you still believe we're going a see a better Sketchup in the near future?Cake, no icing!
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@kwistenbiebel said:
No roadmap, no nothing. Do you still believe we're going a see a better Sketchup in the near future?
Yes, i think SU will improve in the future. Wether this means it'll be able to handle more polys i dont know.
p.s. wouldnt it be icing and no cake?
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No mire icing. Cake please.
That's how I meant it. -
Sorry, i thought you were describing SU in it's current state rather than what it should be.
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@plot-paris said:
chrisglasier, I do like the idea of yours.
That's good to know, thanks.
@unknownuser said:
I think that would not at all undermine the creative aspect of SketchUp. you can still model whatever you like ...
Precisely.
Maybe what I have said here and elsewhere comes across as I want to change Sketchup. Actually, I only want to promote it. I need to understand it (see for example this topic on transformations) but not interfere with it (with my nameset project I use only one external set of ruby callbacks that merely converts web dialog instructions into Sketchup actions).
I think it is wholesome to press the team to improve Sketchup if you know the team has adequate backing to do so. Perhaps, as a group with different interests in Sketchup, we should ask about that? Or maybe use namesets as a provocation to see whether new ways of searching and advertising might help secure more substantial backing for it.
I have repeated Google's mission statement in my signature space as I know it cannot be ignored.
Sincerely ... Chris
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I think my wishes for the new version are similar to those of most
Multi core support
64-bit version
ability to work with larger models
higher amount of polygons
It would also be good to add more to the modeling tools that are already good
but it meets the first three wishes would be great
so that sketchup is more powerful and easier to work
I do not expect that sketchup is similar to Maya or Houdini, but that more progress than it has in recent years. -
Sorry for the bump, but yesterday's Official Google Blog announcement Making ads more interesting is so pertinent to this topic.
Here is the first paragraph (italics emphasis by me):
At Google, we believe that ads are a valuable source of information — one that can connect people to the advertisers offering products, services and ideas that interest them. By making ads more relevant, and improving the connection between advertisers and our users, we can create more value for everyone. Users get more useful ads, and these more relevant ads generate higher returns for advertisers and publishers. Advertising is the lifeblood of the digital economy: it helps support the content and services we all enjoy for free online today, including much of our news, search, email, video and social networks.
It just could be that Google could be persuaded that Sketchup models and modelling could be part of this strategy. Do you think SCF should respond on the basis that expanded advertising should equate to greater need and more funds for Sketchup development? Seems more proactive than many of the posts so far.
Chris
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@unknownuser said:
%(#BF0040)[We think JavaScript is awesome. We also think browsers are awesome. Indeed, when we talk about them, we say they are the cat's meow - which is an American expression meaning AWESOME.
In light of these deeply held beliefs, we created this site to showcase cool experiments for both JavaScript and web browsers.
These experiments were created by designers and programmers from around the world. Their work is making the web faster, more fun, and more open – the same spirit in which we built Google Chrome.]
[Source](http://www.chromeexperiments.com/about/)Does anyone in the Sketchup Team know whether SU 8 will enable us to link into Chrome Experiments so that we can use Sketchup models to support more serious experiments than those currently showcased? (This would entail including a Chrome version of the API's web dialog?)
Thanks
Chris
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@chrisglasier said:
Sorry for the bump, but yesterday's Official Google Blog announcement Making ads more interesting is so pertinent to this topic.
Here is the first paragraph (italics emphasis by me):
At Google, we believe that ads are a valuable source of information — one that can connect people to the advertisers offering products, services and ideas that interest them. By making ads more relevant, and improving the connection between advertisers and our users, we can create more value for everyone. Users get more useful ads, and these more relevant ads generate higher returns for advertisers and publishers. Advertising is the lifeblood of the digital economy: it helps support the content and services we all enjoy for free online today, including much of our news, search, email, video and social networks.
christ man, it's like you're reading this bs and fully missing the word 'ads'... first and foremost, this is about advertising -- not 'a valuable source of information' (well, i guess it's valuable to google)
i think we can all agree that a humungous majority of ads are for lame products.. how is better advertising going to change that? seriously, keep advertising out of software..
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I agree with Jeff.
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I 'tend' to agree as well.
(...but not too much, as the 'advertisement' topic together with 'continuously bashing on SU' almost got me banned from this forum.)So.....Sketchup 7 rocks !
Sketchup 8 will be fantastic!
...And advertisement is heaven ! Yeah! -
Oh no, adverts on SCF are clearly essential to its upkeep but when working in SU, as I do all day, everyday, I wouldn't want to feel like I'm being marketed to all the time. Sounds very distracting.
Solo wrote
@unknownuser said:
There are many select and paste apps out there, like 20-20, hell even Ikea has an online version of what you would like SU to be.
Pete I like the potential for this in SU, but it worries me that if this becomes the focus for Google, there will be no impetus to develop SU anymore as a serious modeller.
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@linea said:
I agree with Jeff.
Why is that? I seem to remember that you work in the building industry. If that is correct you will be aware that a significant part of the work of designers, contractors and subcontractors is sourcing materials. So how do these people know what exists? How do they justify what is good value for money ... and on and on? Where do they find this valuable (if not essential) source of information if not from manufacturers who want to sell the products?
I reckon this is in line with Google's rational to stick with core revenue coming from search and advertising. They are determined to improve pertinence. I believe if, in addition, ads are made reusable and accessible only at the time needed, this type of consensual advertising takes on a new form and a new social significance.
Chris
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@kwistenbiebel said:
I 'tend' to agree as well.
(...but not too much, as the 'advertisement' topic together with 'continuously bashing on SU' almost got me banned from this forum.)Nice. I'd like to take the opportunity to point out that it was your images that got me considering using SU. In fact, I'm fairly certain those do more to advocate SU than Coen's occasional rant.
Coen -credit where credit is due, yeah?
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@linea said:
... but it worries me that if this becomes the focus for Google, there will be no impetus to develop SU anymore as a serious modeller.
Where does Google say it is developing SU as a serious modeller? Does the Sketchup team give you that impression? I remember that Sketchup does not even get a mention in Google's milestones. My opinion is that Sketchup models could be a valuable element in the search and advertising business, and because of this it may well attract more funding and become a serious modeller out of true commercial rationale.
Don't you think?!
Chris
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No chris i don't think that. You're forgetting that are people here that use sketchup as a tool for work and not for hobby and the last thing we need is getting anoyed by ads with our work tool...what stinkie said can be aplied how sketchup start it, it was others sketchup users great works that made others notice skethcup not ads or google earth, and now what you and Google are saying is "let's use the sketchup's fame as a good modeler to make people use it now for Google Earth and Publicity..."
And what do you mean by "Where does Google say it is developing SU as a serious modeller? Does the Sketchup team give you that impression?"?!?! You use sketcup since what version? 6? 5? In case you don't know or forgot about it, initially sketchup was developed as a ArchViz and Concept Design tool, but as google bought it starting losing his ArchViz focus and gaining a Google Earth focus. Righ not is also losing the concept design focus and becoming more and more a tool for companys advertise their objects by 3DWareouse. But i agree with you about SK team doesn't giving that impression, and now you also want sketchup be used to get ads...getting better and better...
You need to keep in mind one thing, when The Sketchup core stops beeing about creative modeling and start being about ads, GE, or any other thing, Sketchup will DIE, because it will lose the users that made him what it is today. And what will you show then to promote the use of sketchup? Companys poducts? Google Earths Blocks? be carefull with what you wish for...
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@linea said:
potential for this in SU, but it worries me that if this becomes the focus for Google, there will be no impetus to develop SU anymore as a serious modeller.
the only way google will develop SU into a serious modeler is if they can make money off it.. more money than they could make by sticking ads into the software which is highly unlikely..
google is a corporation and like all corporations, their #1 priority is maximizing profit.. that's what make threads like this a bit of a joke.. don't think for a second that SU developers couldn't implement most if not all of the 'wishes' in this thread.. if it weren't for the drive to make as much money as possible, SU would be one badass little piece of software.. probably helping us do things we can't even imagine at this time..
SU and high poly count etc is a micro example of the big picture -- motivation based on maximizing profit hinders technological advancement.. we like to think that we're in some crazy tech revolution but really, we're nowhere close to what could be happening and this same thing can be applied to most fields out there.. energy, medical, education, etc..
@chrisglasier said:
Why is that? I seem to remember that you work in the building industry. If that is correct you will be aware that a significant part of the work of designers, contractors and subcontractors is sourcing materials. So how do these people know what exists? How do they justify what is good value for money ... and on and on? Where do they find this valuable (if not essential) source of information if not from manufacturers who want to sell the products?
don't try to feed me this.. i am a designer/contractor/foreman.. i'm involved first hand in all processes from concept through final product.. i admit, i'd love it if SU was tied into a central database of all resources available to me and helped me find the best materials for said project.. this is the spiel you and google are trying to give here but in reality, it's not being implemented that way.. you're not trying to give me the best possible solution - you're trying to make me use products by companies that have given you money to lie that their product is in fact the best for my scenario..
weeding through advertisements actually makes my materials research more difficult.. Ads have nothing to do with helping me and they are by no means a 'valuable source of information'.. they are a hindrance to the creative process and must be kept out of creative software.. -
I am sorry this aspect of this topic has drawn misunderstanding of both intention and detail, and I want to repeat some things to correct this. Some parts of Jeff's last post offer a good opportunity.
@unknownuser said:
the only way google will develop SU into a serious modeler is if they can make money off it..
I agree, most likely indirectly like Google Search.
@unknownuser said:
... more money than they could make by sticking ads into the software which is highly unlikely..
I agree, but what if the ads were the components themselves, each component linked to attribute lists for dimensions, weight, colour options, prices, delivery times and on and on.
@unknownuser said:
google is a corporation and like all corporations, their #1 priority is maximizing profit..
I agree but I don't think that's evil unless evil is used to achieve it.
@unknownuser said:
... that's what make threads like this a bit of a joke..
seems a little disrespectful; there appears to me (a layman) to be many useful technical suggestions regarding the software. But I joined this topic when I read Solo's idea to turn the wishlist into a petition. This seemed without grounds and without purpose, so my alternative suggestion was a commercial rationale to support implementation of at least the main wishlist items.
@unknownuser said:
... i'd love it if SU was tied into a central database of all resources available to me and helped me find the best materials for said project ..
Yes this is the holy grail for people like you and me, and I explain how this can be achieved here. But in any case I think you might temper your less well thought out remarks if you were to consider ads as datasheets. A comprehensive scheme for offering such sheets for analysis and assembly of models would make for a commercial scheme of competitive collaboration*. Core software could be funded from the revenue.
Hope this irons out any misunderstanding.
Chris
*A managed street market is an example of competitive collaboration.
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I read many reviews in summary what you need to sketchup is power!
to continue to grow and reach more users than there is disregard for the weakness of working with many polygons
Google, give more power to sketchup ......... please!
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