Invitation to the SketchUcation collection

Gaieus

@baz said:

I love your current tag:
"Life is like the waistcoat of a summer suit. Short and pointless..."
Sound a bit european tho.

Indeed it is; the very last line of this novel (go to the Postscript and scroll UP)

One of my most favourite authors when it comes to comedy. Not sure however that it gets through the translation corretly.

@unknownuser said:

at the risk of going seriously off topic here, i always thought that your avatar was of a strange man looking lecherously at an attractive woman (or man) just off screen...

Yeah, that's in my local Corner Bar (it is areally on a corner) and I am talking to somebody there

Hey Hazza, if you also feel we have gone way OT, let me know and I'll split the topic! Sorry for hijacking it

Hazza

@baz said:

hazza knows nothing, on his own admission, about woodworking, and very little about design or modeling judgeing by his warehouse offerings and he also makes disconcerting comments about not being able to take measurements off my model without having to spend time understanding how the project is put together.

My "he" was not a deliberate or intentional attempt to p*ss you off, the above paragraph is.

I did not say I know "nothing", I said I know little, big difference
The models I do are NOT my design, follow the URL's and tell THEM that their design is crap
The collection has a standard, if your model does not meet the standard then it does not get added, simple
Despite your deliberate personal insults if your model meets the standard it will be added

Dave R

Hazza, how come you've never fixed the bird feeder model? I'm just curious. Your bunk beds, picnic table, garden bridge, dog house and birdhouse exhibit the same problems.

I think since your goal is to have models that are drawn such that they could be used to build from, you ought to include proper grain direction in the models if they are painted with wood grain materials. And component axes should be correct so that the cutlist plugin will yield proper information for purchasing the materials and building the models.

The gazebo isn't drawn to meet your criteria of each piece of wood being a separate component. I wonder why that is.

baz

hazza, my apologies, I was rude.
baz

peweuk

@unknownuser said:

And component axes should be correct so that the cutlist plugin will yield proper information for purchasing the materials and building the models.

A point I mentioned in an earlier post.

There are a lot of woodworkers who are not computer 'experts' and do not have the time to learn CAD, even in it's simplest form, to create their own drawings/models. So a library a catalogue of useful and popular projects which can be 'easily' modified by them rather than them having to start from scratch would be welcomed by many such people.

However the models have to be 'technically' correct otherwise people lose interest very quickly.

Ultimately a site with catalogues of projects with instructions/information to help the user work with or modify them would be the ideal - although who would have the time to manage such a project

Hazza

@dave r said:

Hazza, how come you've never fixed the bird feeder model? I'm just curious.

I think since your goal is to have models that are drawn such that they could be used to build from, you ought to include proper grain direction in the models if they are painted with wood grain materials. And component axes should be correct so that the cutlist plugin will yield proper information for purchasing the materials and building the models.

The gazebo isn't drawn to meet your criteria of each piece of wood being a separate component. I wonder why that is.

Oh dam someone spotted it, those models were some of my first, now I know more about modeling I should really fix them up. You will notice that I stopped putting material on the models because getting the grain direction the right way around is time consuming and cosmetic... then again it does make the models look prettier.

Which part of the Gazebo? Bruce?

Hazza

@hazza said:

Which part of the Gazebo? Bruce?

Oh god, I see it now, the floorboards and the roof planks. I think it will be easier to remove it from the collection than try and seperate each into a component.

Hazza

@hazza said:

....be easier to remove it from the collection....

Actually it's not in the collection..

Dave, what gave you the idea that is was in the collection?

Dave R

It came up in the collection that I got to by clicking on the link in your signature. I can't help that it was included there.

Grain direction can be useful in some cases for understanding how a piece is constructed. For example how should the grain run on a cabriole leg so that you don't end up with a weak area due to short cross grain? Which direction should the grain run on a table top? (The answer to that one is, it depends. It depends upon the size of the top and the method of construction.) If a beginning woodworker were to try to use your models to build from, an indication of grain orientation would be useful information.

Improperly aligned axes are the reason you had difficulty orienting the materials. If the axes are aligned correctly on the component, setting grain orientation is not difficult or time consuming. If you have to rotate a material after it is applied to the faces ina component, sample the material for other components that require the same orientation. No need to rotate it on every component.

What did you do with the birdfeeder model I sent you? I already corrected that one for you. You could at least replace the one on the warehouse with that one. No need to give me credit. I'm not interested in that.

I'm not trying to be critical but it appears from your collection that you were applying a double standard to models allowed into your collection.

Hazza

@dave r said:

It came up in the collection that I got to by clicking on the link in your signature. I can't help that it was included there.

What did you do with the birdfeeder model I sent you? I already corrected that one for you. You could at least replace the one on the warehouse with that one. No need to give me credit. I'm not interested in that.

I'm not trying to be critical but it appears from your collection that you were applying a double standard to models allowed into your collection.

Oh ok, the link in my signature is to all of my models, not all of my models are up to the standard to be included in the SketchuCation Woodworking collection. No double standards, models that meet the criteria are added, those that don't (like the gazebo) are not added.

I got the Bird feeder but for some reason did not upload the one you corrected for me, I have now. That's why your comment about it confused me, I looked at the model that I have on my PC and it was fine. Same with the picnic table, I had already fixed it but not uploaded the fixed one.

I tried fixing the garden bridge but I could not get the material used on the railings to look right so I removed all materials from the entire model.

Dave R

Why not fix the component axes on the bunk beds and bridge models?

peweuk

Whilst on the subject of axis and material orientation I have noticed something since I recently started using Cutlist output and wondered if anyone has an answer.

It seems that SU treats length and width based on a convention of specifying the length as the longest of the axis, which is a problem.

For example in the attached file I have two panels (one being a streched copy of the other). When I look at the dimensions (in the Get Dimensions plugin or the Cutlist one) the dimension that SU treats as the 'length' is the Y axis on one and the Z axis on the other.

For material purposes, the grain will be shown correctly in the drawing, but any output will be incorrect as the grain should be running 'lengthways' (the Z axis in the example) in both and SU has swapped the length orientation in the larger panel2.

It seems that changing the axis has no effect on this and wonder if there is another setting I am missing which will take care of this issue.

If anyone knows the answer I would really appreciate a pointer in the right direction.

sizing.skp

Dave R

I'll have a chat with my friend who wrote the CutList plugin.

peweuk

Thanks Dave.

I'd be interested in any thoughts he has.

However I don't think it is a plug-in issue.
I think it is the way that SU allocates its definition of length and width depending on which is the greater

Dave R

You may be right on that. I sent him an e-mail and I will report ASAP.

brandy20

Dave, I've never thougth about grain direction in but reading this topic I understand how important it can be. So, do you mean that you set the axis every time you make a component?

Dave R

@brandy20 said:

Dave, I've never thougth about grain direction in but reading this topic I understand how important it can be. So, do you mean that you set the axis every time you make a component?

No I don't set the axis direction everytime I make a component. It is initially set automatically when the component is made and aligns with the global axes. People have problems with axis alignment when they make components in one orientation and then rotae them to put them in place. For example if you were to draw a skirting board for a table with it laying flat on the ground plane and then make the component before rotating and moving it into position between the legs, the axis alignment would be incorrect. I draw the parts in place in a project instead of moving the parts into place after drawing them. This reduces the work load and I don't have to be checking dimensions all the time. If the table legs are placed correctly for the size of the table, all I have to worry about with the skirting board is that it fills the space between the legs. I don't need to know how long that part is at this phase of the drawing. there's also no worries about accurately placing the component.

Sometimes though, the axis alignment does need to be corrected. As an example, draw a rafter board for a roof. Draw it in the orientation it would be in one the roof. Make that a component and apply a material to the faces of the component. YOu'll notice that on the sides, the material runs either vertically or horizontally depending upon the material's original orientation. Select the component and run cutlist on it while you're at it and see how much wood it says you'll need to make the rafter. Undo the material, correct the axis alignement for the component so that one axis runs along the long edge of the rafter. Now open it and apply the material. It may run across the side but it'll run at 90° to the side instead of vertically. This is quickly repaired by right clicking on the face, choosing Texture>Position, right click again and choose Rotate>90°. Run the cutlist again and you'll see you also get an accurate report of the amount of wood required to make the rafter.

Long winded. I hope it makes some sense.

peweuk

@dave r said:

Run the cutlist again and you'll see you also get an accurate report of the amount of wood required to make the rafter.

The problem with cutlist is it ignores the x, y, z axis for determining the analysis of the parts.

For example:
Make a panel 500mm wide, 700mm high and 20mm deep. Run cutlist and the width, height and material thickness are correct.

Now stretch the width to 1000mm and run cutlist again - you will see that the width and height are now reversed in Cutlist.
This makes it inaccurate for correct parts listing if you have a Dynamic component where the user can alter the width of the cabinet and does this so that the width starts at less than the height, but is enlarged to a width greater than the height.

I wrote to the author about this, and he is considering changing the way cutlist determines the width and height based on the X and Z axis - when he returns to doing coding as he is busy elsewhere at present.

Dave R

I understand your point. The flip side is that you can't count on people to draw things with the axes oriented correctly so just relying on the axes orientation in the component won't always work either. Still it's a good plugin.

Dynamic Components are problematic for some woodworking-related stuff too. For example, it would be nice to make cabinet door parts dynamic so it would be a quick thing to change sizes. If you want an accurate cutlist, you'd want the length of the tenons included in the rails and the length of the tongues on the edges of the panel as well. Resizing in Dynamic Components occurs via scaling. So making a door wider results in longer tenons which you wouldn't really do in practice.

You can split the rail component into three parts, the ends and a center. Then set up the DC so that the center section gets scaled and the ends get moved as needed. That prevents the tenons from being scaled but a cutlist will report three smaller pieces where there should only be one larger part.

Oh well, if it ain't one thing, it's your mother.

peweuk

@dave r said:

You can split the rail component into three parts, the ends and a center. Then set up the DC so that the center section gets scaled and the ends get moved as needed. That prevents the tenons from being scaled but a cutlist will report three smaller pieces where there should only be one larger part.

I had this problem too - obviously 'cos that's how it works.

However, try adding a keyword (such as 'ignore') to the component name for the tennon parts, and then in the cutlist window add the word 'ignore' to the 'parts list box'. The parts are now ignored from the cutting info and added to the 'parts' table.

I raised this with the author who is also considering another request I made which will hopefully overcome this problem. That is to add a facility where certain key words are ignored from both the cutting list and the parts list.

@dave r said:

The flip side is that you can't count on people to draw things with the axes oriented correctly so just relying on the axes orientation in the component won't always work either. Still it's a good plugin.

I agree - it is a great plugin.
As far as the axis are concerned, it is a problem if people draw them incorrectly, but if the DC are already created (which I am in the process of doing) then hopefully it won't be a problem.