V-Ray v.s. Fryrender?
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@kwistenbiebel said:
@richard said:
.... but mate if you find you can get any output fromm vray you are far more up the ladder than me as I couldn't understand one quarter of the options available to get good output.
Well, Vray is actually more about knowing which buttons to leave UNtouched
. ( ...) Best way is to start with presets, both for render settings as for materials. You'll notice that your input can improve by just changing some of the parameters and leaving all others untouched.True! In order to get decent images out of Vray, you needn't know all the ins and outs of the inner workings of the app. Took me a while to figure that out. I would recommend reading the manual, though - just to get a basic understanding of what everything does.
@ steelers: Richard and Kwisten are right, for unbiased rendering, you'll need serious computing power.
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@unknownuser said:
@ steelers: Richard and Kwisten are right, for unbiased rendering, you'll need serious computing power.
I woulnt say thats necessarily true, but if you havent got a lot of computing power you do need a lot of time and patience.
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Yeah I was affraid everyone would tell me that about computer power. Im debating getting one built but im still a poor college student. Thats what makes fry even harder to buy, cause I dont think they offer a student discount...I wonder if there is anyone to ask on their forum about that? But I have been running vray on my computer and that alone takes patience...even podium does with my wimpy computer. And as far as vray is concerned, you all are right. It took me reading through the manual a few times and just playing around to get a little bit of a grasp on it, but to me, once you get a hold of what to touch and what not to, workflow really moves fast. I would even argue that it can be quicker than podium at times (but I think v2 will change that). I found that messing aruond with the material editor first and then the rendering settings was a very sensible approach to learning the program. The encouraging part about fry and having a slow computer is that I believe you can pause renderings and start them back up again. That will really help so that it wont imobilize my computer for days. And I did just download the demo and it actually is for an unlimited amount of time and did exactly what I thought with the output limitations and stamp. But please anyone keep commenting on this topic if you want to because all the information that I can get, the better.
But I do want to kinda go a little off topic and I think this may be an appropriate place to talk about it since a bunch of you are already involved with the post and I dont think I should start a new one. Anyway, If I wanted to do animation...how would you rank programs in order what I should try to learn first. Obviously I have to deal with the rendering engine first but what next? The adobe products seem to be the way to go, but which ones are relevant. It seems that flash, illustrator, and after effects are all good ones to help enhance images and animations...am I wrong? I just look at the capabilities of each and they all seem like they do different things but also work together and when I see plugins like Knolls lighting effects, I just cant even begina to think about the endless amount of options for illustration. But thank you in advance to anyone insight guys...you have already helped out a lot. Now to play with fry and hopefully my computer doesnt die.
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When you say animation, what sort of animation are we talking about here? 3d or 2d? they are vry different beasts requiring different solutions.
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Honestly both. I may be wrong but I see some of biebels stuff and it looks like a mix of 2d and 3d. It seems as though a lot of people will take a single rendered image and manipulate it a little bit for part of an animation and then another part will be the 3d simulation. It looks like a nice way to create longer and sometimes more interesting animations without having to do a million scenes for a model to produce a 30 second animation. I guess im looking to know how to do animations that are professional and suitable for architectural illustration primarily...and maybe toss in product illustration (but that seems to be a similar process just different modeling and rendering techniques).
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Mate if your thinking 3d animation i think forget about unbiased options altogether. You have to remember each frame needs to be rendered. Kwist's recent {nude} animation remember was done over 7 more cores than you have available. You could be looking at 10-20 hours or more per frame so nearly two weeks for one second of video.
Hopefully Podium 2 offers up some better animation tools!
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@remus said:
@unknownuser said:
@ steelers: Richard and Kwisten are right, for unbiased rendering, you'll need serious computing power.
I woulnt say thats necessarily true, but if you havent got a lot of computing power you do need a lot of time and patience.
Seriously he'll need more than patience - he'll go crazy!!
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Patience and a good mgazine then
If your thinking about 3d animation (complex stuff with more than just a moving camera) youll want to get a proper animation package like blender, 3ds max or maya. SU just isnt designed for animating objects.
And as richard said, you can pretty much forget about unbiased rendering for animation, unless you fancy leasing out some time on a render farm, but then that can get pretty costly.
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Yeah first priority would definately be getting a beast of a computer and I my first engine for animation would be vray and I would probably just forget about an unbiased engine. But this link is what im looking to do and it is very common if you can get a client that wants to spend the money on a walkthrough...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWZTUIr6aM8
I dont see why sketchup couldnt handle something like this, but I could be wrong? Im not looking for animating figures and all that. My primary goal is a camera walkthrough/simulation of a space and building where you take the frames and stitch them together and there you go. But I guess what wanted to know is what programs would you use to stitch them together...I would want to add introductions to the animation, music, scene transitions and stuff like that. Thats where the adobe products seem to come into play. I just dont know which ones are worth the time and which are not and thats where I guess I need the guidance. Because like I was saying before, when you look at some people's animations, they have stitched seems but then they will take one frame and zoom in and out of that single frame and manipulate it with what I assumed is one of the adobe products? That helps turn a 30 second animation into a 45 second animation and it can look very nice. You do that a couple times and you have a longer animation that is actually worth presenting and not this 10 second one that took days to render. And I can try to learn a little bit of these programs like flash, after effects, and illustrator without necessarily even having the computer to do the animation yet. I can learn how to add music and scene transitions and when I graduate and get the money, I can get a big boy computer and be a little ahead or idealy Id like to have a job and let them pay for it all. Either way is fine but im just trying to learn as much as possible before I graduate. Then on top of that there are all the lighting effects in some of these programs that can help with enhancing the animation. I just always am asking people that are experienced about how they see the market and this forum along with the rendering forums really help me get a grasp on what is worth knowing and what isnt....its a great help and I always get great advice and i apologize if im being "that guy" thats asking a million questions. But, with that said, thanks again for all the input, its really valued.
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i think it(animation) was made by using network rendering feature of vray as distrib.rendering, so not only multi-core machines used in animation pipeline...servers and it's slaves.
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@richard said:
Mate if your thinking 3d animation i think forget about unbiased options altogether.!
That I disagree (partially).
For exterior animation, unbiased works quite well.(Indigo, Fry).
For interiors, rendering animation using unbiased indeed is an impossible quest. -
The latest version of ArtLantis is easy to create animation with. It is also very fast if fantastic quality isn't what you are after.
I used it for years before Podium. -
I really appreciate all the info about the rendering engines and with all the input ive received, I have a good grasp on what to possibly use, but im a little more interested in the programs that take those scenes and puts them together?
For instance, Biebel and anyone else that feels they can answer: what did you use to put your paperclip animation together? Were they adobe products to stitch and add the music and other imagery effects? The programs after the rendering engine are what im wondering about. Which ones are worth the time and money?
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try to look at http://www.icube.ru (one of russian viz leaders, one of developers of vrascatter for vray-proxies - http://www.icubeviz.com/services/VRayScatter/). they have own renderfarm to make really nice viz(after main page, left corner to switch language).
there is no such program with button "to make it beautiful"...need time to make masterpiece or final composition of subj.
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Jeepers, guys. There is a ton of stuff that renderers often ignore that makes it different from 'physical processes'. Renderers have improved hugely in the last 10 years but they are a loong way from 'reality'...
A really common one is that they represent light by choosing just 3 frequencies at the low, middle and high frequency range to represent what is a continues function. ie Red,Green,Blue values rather than the response curve of the light.
Adam
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@steelers05 said:
... im a little more interested in the programs that take those scenes and puts them together?
For instance, Biebel and anyone else that feels they can answer: what did you use to put your paperclip animation together? Were they adobe products to stitch and add the music and other imagery effects? The programs after the rendering engine are what im wondering about. Which ones are worth the time and money?
A lot of possibilities there.
The easiest software imaginable for video compositing (stitching animation still images ) is Windows Movie Maker. Very handy but limited.
Another free one is Virtual Dub, which actually does quite a good job at making animations....And then there is the expensive video software: Adobe Premiere and After Effects.
Those two are very elaborate and take a lot of time to learn.
To make the learning curve easy, you could try to learn Adobe Premiere elements first.You can find a little tutorial on getting SU stills (or photoreal rendered stills) to animation using Premiere Elements here: http://www.sketchucation.com/forums/scf/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=654&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&hilit=animation
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@kwistenbiebel said:
For exterior animation, unbiased works quite well.(Indigo, Fry).
For interiors, rendering animation using unbiased indeed is an impossible quest.Sorry mate i was hinting more at the this being a limitation of his computing power!!!
I've certainly seen you prove the abilities of Indigo to produce animation - but eight cores v's one! Thats more what I meant!!
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@bigstick said:
The latest version of ArtLantis is easy to create animation with. It is also very fast if fantastic quality isn't what you are after.
I used it for years before Podium.Please note quick to render and set animation but any time savings there are quickly lost in material set up! This can be best noted by possibly their best artist Nic Riviera who spends days or even weeks on setting up for a single image! Most would hope for minutes or at least hours!
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@unknownuser said:
@steelers05 said:
If you're thinking of getting an unbiased renderer, do consider giving Indigo a spin. Easier to use than Maxwell, and more than sufficient for most people's needs. It may be free, but it is very potent.
Why do you say this?
Can you explain? -
I hope you dont mind if i have a go at answering this, im a bit of an idigo fan myself.
Basiaclly it has most of the features youd find in maxwell, and a better interface with SU than maxwell. Materials setup is very simple in most cases, although ti still has the ability to do very compex things like SSS and displacement.
Whaat (the exporter developer) is also very active in developing new plugins to keep us up to date with the altest goings on.
And best of all it's free!
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