Where does the time go?
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An open question for you all.
Where does the time go (how does it break down) in your projects using Sketchup?
Its often useful to breakdown the existing workflows like this to reveal where we should all be focussing attention wrt Extensions to SketchUp - be that Google or others. The basic grunt work of knocking out geometry is often not the largest slice of time - eg once you have a model, its often pretty quick to duplicate it from scratch. So where does the time go actually?
Adam
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guess that's a deep one Adam! ..if i get your question, i think a lot of time goes in gathering and setting up the source material prior to modelling - pictures, cad files, elevations, aligning, hunting down those intersections.. etc. what's in your mind?
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I believe GOogle has done studies on this with eye tracking devices IE cameras that monitor the users eye movements to determine where they are looking on screen. I'll give it some more thought and try to prepare a response that accurately reflects my time usage on sketchup. THis may take a while to think about though.
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I dont do any contracted work, so take from this what you will.
As you said, mos of my time isnt spent modelling. For me most of it goes in texturing, because as we all know SUs texturing tools arent the best, so often it takes a lot of time to adjust the textures to a point where it looks passable in a render.
I also seem to spend a lot of time just tweaking really minor things in the model, like adding really fine details and adjusting lighting, although id guess there isnt really a lot you can do about that through plugins.
Thats how it is for me, hope its useful for something.
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Dear Adam,
I hope you are enjoying the beach at Brighton and wandering around the Lanes. There used to be a good fish restaurant in the Lanes when I was there (mid 70s).
I use Sketchup to model mechanical components, and the design process now takes up the most time. Initially, it was wondering how to use the tools to make certain shapes, and then how to align components. Those were the days when I was 'plugin crazy', if you understand my meaning. My modelling skills have improved significantly, and so I only use a (relatively) small subset of plugins these days.
Where I do spend time is cleaning up and reducing the size of imported mechanical parts (for example http://www.tracepartsonline.net/. Unless it is something really tricky (like a castor) then I tend to draw it myself as the resulting model is then low poly.
It would be useful if I could export from Sketchup and then import into a modeller like AutoDesk's Inventor. If I could import models as surfaces, then I could use them as 'templates' for further modelling, and so a few more exporters/importers would be nice. I need Inventor for the final 2D drawings for manufacture and so I only use Sketchup for design intent models. I can go the other way by first exporting from Inventor as a .sat file, then importing into AutoCAD before exporting as a .dwg file. Works well! Now, If you could somehow link Sketchup to an open access 2D CAD package so that models could be properly dimensioned (for builders and manufacturers) then that would be a major step forward for Sketchup . Layout just doesn't do it on dimensioning.
Hope these few comments help.
Kind regards,
Bob -
Interesting. Thanks for taking the time..
Let me refine my question because it strikes me we have an interesting mix of individuals that should be able to get some traction on this...
I posed the question "Where does all the time go?" because I've become increasingly concerned that, with a scripting language like Ruby under SketchUp, it's possible to do pretty much anything you want. Launch Microsoft Outlook and send emails, send stuff to websites, look up databases, generate new geometry - whatever.
But there are two related issues.
First, if a task makes up 5% of the total effort of a project. Having talented individuals pour passion and effort into making rubies that make it 100% faster seems a bit of a waste to gain 2.5% productivity.
And on a related note, we run the danger of losing the simplicity and clarity of a workflow built around a small number of powerful tools that is the bedrock of SketchUp. I guess I struggle to 'get' how people work with dozens of these (admitted very groovy) ruby plug-ins in practice.
Take a slice through the cake that is a 'time spent on a project' and you find its not uniform; different phases of a project need different tools. What are those phases? Can they be broadly grouped? If they can, perhaps we should focus all these Extension gurus (hey and Google guys too) on providing 'palettes of tools', choose a palette of tools for each job/phase in hand and not this insane sea-of-buttons I've seen posted a few times now when users show screenshots.
So back to my question. [And if there is a better way of forming this, do go right ahead.]
Where does all the time go? Can we squint a little at the problem and define broad outlines of a project in which broad classes of tools are appropriate?Or do we leave SketchUp as a thing of beauty and top and tail it with other standalone applications that fulfill different phases? So, some kind of Content Management thing at the beginning for pulling together assets, a 'Sketchup classic' phase, visualization phase, export to raytracers, plotters, cutters etc.
Some ideas anyway. And I know it will be easy for the reader to nod and say 'yep, thats sounds ok'. But I'm interested in your thoughts! So, if you have the time (and I've gotcha because you read this far!) reply with some thoughts - however big/small/unfinished.
Or am I totally in the long grass here? I honestly don't think so, but I'm happy to hear some home truths!
Have a good weekend!
Adam -
Adam, thanks for clarifying your question...I thought I understood, but since it was posed here on foreign soil I wanted to be sure. Still, it's been crawling thru my mind since:
If Skoogle doesn't help us out soon with high-poly multi-core functionality, I bet there could be a way to help with populating a model with components without the time-consuming processing lag. Placing (and fussing with) a few trees, bushes, and some peeps can take much longer than modeling a simple site.
I was...shocked, I guess is the word, seeing I could move around in the LightUp rendered model as if panning a jpeg (a 3d jpeg :`) So maybe a model could be "rendered" to remove the poly, and component proxies (some crude indication of substance...including width and height) could be placed on the fly...to be resolved into 3d poly by SU on my next bathroom break.
Kuddos on LightUp, BTW...hope you're ready for all my intermediate questions once I get there.
EDIT: Julian, somehow I missed your post (after yet another break :`) Guess that's two votes now.
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Building a moderately detailed model doesn't take that much time. Texturing doesn't take too much time either. What takes up a lot of my time is waiting.
For instance:
- I'd be roughly 75% through a job, by this time the model is somewhat complex, I have a number of things I've added to the base model to create a setting. I'd add the vegetation (some 3D, some 2D), entourage, etc. Finding the right items in itself isn't so easy (but workable), but having to wait on SU to respond (because of the lack of high poly support and/or the lack of multicore support - this REALLY ticks me off) takes up a lot of time, the waiting. I guess using some form of proxy / instancing tool (with the current SU) could alleviate some speed problems - however I like to see the scene in its intended state (yeah, I know, I have a simple and demanding mind).
- Then there is the matter of scenes and rendering. Setting things up, material settings, light settings, doing a test, settings, test, settings, test, until you get it the way you want it, you get the idea. Most of this time waste could be avoided if one could see the changes quicker (again probably SU's fault since I use Podium) and if one had a better idea of how certain light settings would influence the render outcome. To an extent I think IES support and an IES light settings browser would help. After a while though, you get the idea of how certain light setting will render. Before any of you go "upgrade your hardware", I think I'm running a more than capable machine at this time, its the software that seems to be lacking.
Whilst not my main source of revenue, I do some architectural visualisation. Generally I don't run into things that I have to try and find a way around doing. Things like displacement mapping, more complete texturing tools, etc. would come in handy. Also my plugins panel is becoming a bit of a nightmare, I'll have to look into the plugin bianhai (spelling?) posted here a while ago and how to properly implement it.
Oh and like today, I am struggling to do something that should be quite frikkin straight forward, but for the life of me I can't seem to get right. Rendering a model with a sky background since a skydome doesn't work. I've checked the documentation, checked the tutorials, checked tutorial SU files, but still it isn't working. Either I'm missing a step (possible I suppose) or it wasn't documented properly - so what I'm trying to say is that detailed documentation is quite important. +++ EDIT +++ FFS, finally got it sorted out!
If I think of anything else, I'll post it.
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I spend most of my time in SU adding detail and refining ideas. I go straight from pencil sketches to 3d models. I use it to try out different design options, and also work out construction details.
I use components extensively, so that constructing a building in virtual form is more like building it in life. Then when I have to texture and render, the fewer components I have to configure, the quicker everything else is. I develop fairly detailed 3d models which I take into Vectorworks to take 2d drawings from. This works quite well, as I can get 2d sections, plans and elevations from my model. SketchUp is now pretty much pivotal to the way I work, and I probably spend as much time with the 3d model as I do with 2d drawings.
For me SketchUp is a design tool that allows me to explore 3d design in a very intuitive way, and communicate the design with clients. I can keep adding detail and changing things until the client is happy. I feel that I want to show the client the proposals in a reasonable amount of detail so they are confident that they know what they are going to get.
I have a large texture collection, so this sort of thing doesn't take up too much time for me. I have quite a few Ruby scripts which I use a lot. Pipe along path, chamfer edges, point at centre, group centre, Podium and some others. The things that take the most time in SketchUp for me are things like making windows, doors and curtain walling. I haven't found any decent scripts which automate these things well enough for me yet.
I have been tempted to buy LightUp, but the inaccuracy of the realtime rendering spoils it a bit for me. It looks like a very cool app though!
I really need a plugin which enables me to do environmental modelling for buildings at early design stage. I am playing with EnergyPlus at the moment but it's not really usable yet. At the moment this sort of tool would be the single biggest timesaver for me, and would probably have the largest influence on my work. The most interesting thing about LightUp for me was therefore the possibility of lighting analysis - that would really be useful!
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@bigstick said:
I have been tempted to buy LightUp, but the inaccuracy of the realtime rendering spoils it a bit for me. It looks like a very cool app though!
Hey, I know we all wear different hats..but I'm really interested in trying to tease out the workflow issues of SketchUp here. LightUp is neat (well I would say that!) and its doing great but in a way I don't want to muddy the water with it.
However, I'd very much appreciate it if you could PM me with me with more of your concerns wrt LightUp rendering - not sure what you mean, as its the user who chooses what quality you want - in the limit, LightUp performs identical calculations to a raytracer..
Adam
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Bore da Bigstick,
I'm a Cardiff boy myself, but never leaned to speak Welsh. What part of Wales are you living in?
I am interested in your experience of using VectorWorks to create 2D drawings from 3D Sketchup models. Perhaps you could start a new post and (if possible) show a few examples - 3D model followed by 2D drawings. There have been previous posts (in Freeware I think) which describe open source and free 2D CAD programs. I think it would be a great step forward if Sketchup could be married to one of these free CAD packages. It would open up Sketchup to new applications that require a more professional output, i.e. fully dimensioned and annotated drawings. Perhaps this is already possible.
Regards,
Bob
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