Lively by Google
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Actually Lewis, I can understand you very well.
In the Photreal Render community, Sketchup is laughed at as well, while it can be as productive as any other big modeler when used in a high end render engine combo (like Vray and Maxwell).Some people feel easily threatened by the power such a small app can have.
I can remember me being mocked at on the Fry render forum, just for being a SU user.
Lately, things turned around a bit, and Sketchup work does get appreciated on that forum.
It even sped up the development of the Sketchup2Fry plugin which is now up to par with the other host apps.The thing is that with sketchup you can model a design and show off photoreal output (SU-render engine combo) of a complete project within a couple of days.
While the dinosaur packages would take weeks to do the exact same job. THAT is why Sketchup is so threatening to the old school 3D community .
They just hate the fact that ,having invested a lot of time and resources into their dinosaur apps, someone can do a better and faster job with a low cost easy-to-use application. -
@unknownuser said:
Lewis . . .what kind of regime were you working under? that is unbelievable. you would think .. you would HOPE that design people would be the most open-minded and innovative thinkers and would realize the no matter what tools one uses. .. .SU, Max, Pencil and Paper of CHisel and Stone. . .DEsign is design is design.> What difference could it make. What a gang of thugs those guys must be.
I don't want to end up completely unemployed, so I will have to write you a PM about which school fired me, David. Being fired from a studio is a "blacklisting" capital crime, you know, even if it is for silly reasons. I'll never get another job as a studio critic again, anywhere. All because I supported SU as a design tool!
But I can tell you that at the GSD (Harvard's school--where I do not teach, for a number of reasons...I doubt they would have me as a Yalie even if I didn't use SU), SketchUp is software non grata. I had this job with a minor starchitect high in hierarchy there...nothing he was doing required NURBS modeling or even BIM, and certainly the students he hired from his studio had zero competence at either. But to model his big project and produce his publication renderings (and not be harassed about how I was doing it) I had to alter SU's screen colors to resemble Rhino's. Since no one there really knew what Rhino was other than it was suitable for architecture (as SU wasn't), I could get the job done in crash time.
I could actually have just done it in Rhino, but it would have taken four months and not three, of course. Worse interface--although McNeel, unlike Google, has actively updated and improved their software since then.
Most of the stranger-architects writing me about my crime in teaching SketchUp seem to be German, for some reason. Like I said, who has the time for that?
And seeing SU devolve into a content creation tool for things like Lively is going to change their minds?
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you know, from the moment on, when some company sells (affordable) 3D simulation suites with 3D glasses and contact simulation (so that you can actually see and touch things), I will be using 2Live or Lively.
because then I can really go there and meet all of you.
just imagine how much fun it is to sit in a huge SCF Corner Bar, where everyone is allowed to design the place, whenever he likes.
all these people of every part of the world, wearing freaky avatars, creating chairs out of thin air and then sitting on it, creating a circle arround FredBartels who is drawing some beautyful sculptures...
but before that I am definitely not interested in these simulations...
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@unknownuser said:
I don't want to end up completely unemployed, so I will have to write you a PM about which school fired me, David. Being fired from a studio is a "blacklisting" capital crime, you know, even if it is for silly reasons. I'll never get another job as a studio critic again, anywhere. All because I supported SU as a design tool!
Actually I do get it. I have heard reports of Univeristies firing language, philosophy and PolySci Profs for not being PC enuff, or denying tenure for not being in step with that schools line of thinking. . . .Ironic isn't it? Mostly political "conservatives" getting booted from "liberal" instituions. Free thought is good as long as its their "free thought" i guess. I am not ranting about Conservs vs. liberals. . . just pointing out the irony.
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@lewiswadsworth said:
@dale said:
@lewiswadsworth said:
Hmmm...I've noticed more Google team watching this thread.
I hope them Google boys realise they've got a diamond in their hands. A diamond in the rough, but nevertheless. If they find a way to relieve SU's poly limit, and add some functionalities (I'm sure everyone here's got their own list), I'm absolutely certain SU will take the 3D world by storm.
Frankly, I cannot fathom they don't know.
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@unknownuser said:
I hope them Google boys realise they've got a diamond in their hands.
hear, hear, stinkie!
(but I would rahter say, a beautyful, shining "Ruby"
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Once upon a time I was wary about admitting what 3D software I was using for fear of letting the cat out of the bag......these days it is just out of embarrasment.....who is going to admit to their clients they are using BratzUp?...."Eh, yes, the same software they are using for the Lively stuff..hehe...blush......but it's good though...."
SketchUp!!!.....the software best used from a plain brown paper bag!!
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Just as a side note: does anyone knows what the former @last team is doing now?
I mean, Jim Holman and the others. What happened to them? (besides lying somewhere on a beach spending the money earned by selling Sketchup
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Jim Holman retired. A few others left, but many of the original @Lasters are still there, doing much the same job they always did.
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@kwistenbiebel said:
Just as a side note: does anyone knows what the former @last team is doing now?
I mean, Jim Holman and the others. What happened to them? (besides lying somewhere on a beach spending the money earned by selling Sketchup ).I imagine that as part of the terms of the sale of SketchUp they agreed not to develop a similar product for a certain period of time. I
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Might I dare say this has been quite a "Lively" thread!
I have no interest in the online social experiments as such, but I can understand Google's move to address the up and coming young consumer generation. They can sell the advertising to those who don't hesitate, and in fact have a propensity to click. As a parent of 4 between 15 & 18 - I struggle with the amount of time they spend and their gravitation to being on-line. But the reality I have come to is that is how today's young crowd socializes. It infuriates me and amazes me all at the same time.
Now - to emphasize what was stated earlier - I truly hope that Google is watching and listening to us and does understand what an incredible design tool they have. I too have encountered the elitist snobs that stick their nose up at sketchup - architects, designers, and visualizers alike. But, when you meet someone that does use and approve - they are typically the type of individual that is truly excited about their work, and can not wait to show you and discuss what they are doing with SU. When an Architect or Interior Designer shuns such and intuitive design tool - I smile and think of how easy it just was for me to explore 4-5 design options and review them with a boss or peer, or better yet a client. Decisions get made and we move on, and can even produce final presentations / marketing materials before the "others" have even gotten out of the gate.
Google - please leave the current SU free for the "uber-consumer netizens" of tomorrowland. Develop PRO as a big brother application on a multi-core code base that remains open for all of the wonderfull RUBY minds that help to make SU sing! You know - the paying crowd!Bytor
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@bytor said:
Google - please leave the current SU free for the "uber-consumer netizens" of tomorrowland. Develop PRO as a big brother application on a multi-core code base that remains open for all of the wonderfull RUBY minds that help to make SU sing! You know - the paying crowd!
BytorWell said!
In my opinion, the only development really needed is making SU Pro adapted to the new hardware (64 bit, multicore, large RAM). Go Google and make us proud. -
I attended a well known design school on the west coast. I just spoke with a former instructor and they have implemented SU into the core curriculum. It truly is an amazing design tool. I find myself being not just more productive, but having a lot of FUN when using it. It is not just architects - designers in products, entertainment and graphics are also interested in the development of SU as a sophisticated but simple tool. If Google is listening they will be sensitive to the sentiments expressed on this board - I just don't understand why they are so secretive about development. It makes it seem like they are going to do with SU what they are going to do with it, regardless of how its true core users feel about it. Its funny, because even if Google manages to get an entire generation of young users, if they do not further develop the app, then its user base, as it matures, will pursue something else.
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I am not really excited about this...A virtual world concept sounded nice 5 years ago .
Right now it feels like an outdated concept.
Google seems so be over positive about web usage in my opinion.
When the new wears of, people end up just wanting efficiency and not some 'happy virtual world' ..unless you can make money out of it as Gaieus suggests.
I think making it a money game is Googles ultimate goal, just like Google maps will probably be integrated in the moneymaking 'Adword' concept. (pay per click on sponsored map links)[Starting the music]:Now let us all sing the 'Google song'....
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@Google,
Perhaps consider going open source with the Sketchup Pro version.
At least in that way, there is still a chance of further development of our beloved tool.The basic concept of Sketchup as a professional 3D tool is just too valuable to throw away.
It just needs to be developed further.
If you guys aren't planning to consider further Pro development, please open up the SU core to the community (or maybe to a 3td party developer?)....or find another way not to leave Pro users out in the cold.
I am afraid that with the current way of things, Sketchup might end up being not as 'lively' as it was before.
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@gaganraj said:
Its funny, because even if Google manages to get an entire generation of young users, if they do not further develop the app, then its user base, as it matures, will pursue something else.
exactly, gaganraj!
and what is better than having a whole bunch of people, who use your application excessivly and push it to it's limits, reporting to you every day, giving comments, criticism and loads of suggestions of how to improve your product?the Google guys have the best development guide in front of their noses. lets hope they make use of it!
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@plot-paris said:
and what is better than having a whole bunch of people, who use your application excessivly and push it to it's limits, reporting to you every day, giving comments, criticism and loads of suggestions of how to improve your product?
the Google guys have the best development guide in front of their noses.
Which is why I can't understand the lack of reverse-feedback (respect)!
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@tomsdesk said:
Which is why I can't understand the lack of reverse-feedback (respect)!
huh? I'm not quite following that.
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Here is a quote I found at CgTalk:
@unknownuser said:
We are studying how to support user generated content. We would like to support two kinds of users: (1) artists and designers that are already competent with Max, Maya, SketchUp and other professional DCC tools and (2) average users who would like to model, paint and animate their own stuff. Its fairly short hop to #1 but there's a lot policy work and polishing to make it ready for public consumption.
Mark Young
Google UX Design -
kwistenbeibel wrote
@unknownuser said:
I think making it a money game is Googles ultimate goal, just like Google maps will probably be integrated in the moneymaking 'Adword' concept. (pay per click on sponsored map links)
I find Googles approach to money making, or what can be seen of it, very bizarre. They have made it virtually impossible for third party professionals or individuals to profit from Google Earth because of the slow upload process and restrictions on advertising. But it was those opportunities that made 2L so successful, so well populated and ultimately so profitable for Linden Labs. Surely the ultimate 3d world could be Google Earth but enthusiastic hobbyists alone are NEVER going to populate it to any degree. There aren't enough local governments (like Amsterdam) who will model their towns out of good will.
As for SU, Google have no idea how many design professionals use it because THEY ARE NOT BUYING IT!!! I bought it, but I've come across loads of architects and other designers who are pained to admit that they are using the free version but are still fronting their operation with other "more respectable" apps (I keep seeing that SU man walking a dog and responsibly holding a bag of poo in visuals for new developments). If you want to make money Skoogle-people sell your product.
I totally agree with Alan, The SU name should not have been appropriated for the free version. IMHO putting "Pro" after anything instantly makes it sound to be the exact opposite.
In my (all be it small) experience I think the old-school is beginning to see the light but they still act like SU is their dirty little secret. A few weeks ago a large architecture firm asked me if they could have part of a city model that I had done in SU for another practice (I'm not boasting here, the model wasn't anything special). I gladly gave them it but obviously the SU input will be invisible in their finished product - 3DS Viz.
I will say in Yorkshire at least, I hear of more and more firms proudly using SU Pro. Unfortunately I also still regularly hear "How can it be any good if it's free?" but there is no helping luddites like that.What concerns me is that us little guys cannot afford (and shouldn't have to) front our operations with apps like 3DS Max. It will be a real loss if Google cannot realise SU's potential.
With the risk of sounding hypocritical after ranting about free and pro, I have to agree with Lewis, the open source route could be the only way to preserve any integrity.
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