Lively by Google
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Just over a year ago I made a prediction over on the Podium forum about Google getting into virtual worlds, I believe I thought that MTv would also get involved in a big way.
I am not surprised by this nor inflamed, I actually just hope they do a good job at it and not half arsed like Second life.You have to see it from the Google point of business, it makes sense and it is a huge avenue for advertising, now if SU is the vehicle that helps these 'Tweens' to build their virtual pads then be it, remember that the emphasis is on social networking not modeling.
Sketchup is too big and powerful (thanks to our coders) to be relegated to the Lego of the building industry, it is far too convenient and user friendly to be lost to frivolity.
I actually see an opportunity here, as if this does indeed grow to something that is huge I want a virtual store of cool architecture, props and vehicles that I can sell to the discerning user.
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Let's hope that in V7 some credible amount of work has been put into distancing SU Free and SU Pro. I have seen some evidence of this. I'm not at all sure about the truckloads of cash. I believe that SU is still largely required to stand on its own two feet within Google...so they are still very dependent on the sales of SU Pro for their funding. Clearly, if that situation...and SU itself...is going to continue then moves have to be made to address the situations you describe, Lewis.
If SU does nose-dive in credibility amongst the professions, then SU Pro will fail and SU Free will follow...or at least will cease further development which amounts to the same thing. For that reason, common sense would dictate that a clear demarcation be made between the two versions.
I think the first big mistake was to allow SU Free to carry on the name and for commercial users to start having to use the name SU Pro. It ought to have been the other way around. We still ought to be using SketchUp and the free community ought to be using SU Lite, at best...if not something with a completely different name. There's no such confusion between 3DS Max and GMax.
Like Pete, I see possibilities in Lively. I don't think it's juvenile stage will last very long.
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@lewiswadsworth said:
Most of the stranger-architects writing me about my crime in teaching SketchUp seem to be German, for some reason. Like I said, who has the time for that?
?Were any of them suggesting what design software you should be using Lewis?
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@dale said:
@lewiswadsworth said:
Most of the stranger-architects writing me about my crime in teaching SketchUp seem to be German, for some reason. Like I said, who has the time for that?
?Were any of them suggesting what design software you should be using Lewis?
Rhino, mainly. Ironically enough, I also teach a course in Rhino...I've been using it 7 years, and SU only 6. Rhino's interface is clunkier for designpurposes, though considerably more precise and capable as amaker of models. But for some reason the distinction is lost on most architects I try to explain that to. I'm becoming tired of trying to explain it.
I should try to find that email where I tried to explain this to a former schoolmate of mine in Gehry's office! I think she has decided I'm an idiot now, beneath the notice of such exalted professionals.
Hmmm...I've noticed more Google team watching this thread.
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Actually Lewis, I can understand you very well.
In the Photreal Render community, Sketchup is laughed at as well, while it can be as productive as any other big modeler when used in a high end render engine combo (like Vray and Maxwell).Some people feel easily threatened by the power such a small app can have.
I can remember me being mocked at on the Fry render forum, just for being a SU user.
Lately, things turned around a bit, and Sketchup work does get appreciated on that forum.
It even sped up the development of the Sketchup2Fry plugin which is now up to par with the other host apps.The thing is that with sketchup you can model a design and show off photoreal output (SU-render engine combo) of a complete project within a couple of days.
While the dinosaur packages would take weeks to do the exact same job. THAT is why Sketchup is so threatening to the old school 3D community .
They just hate the fact that ,having invested a lot of time and resources into their dinosaur apps, someone can do a better and faster job with a low cost easy-to-use application. -
@unknownuser said:
Lewis . . .what kind of regime were you working under? that is unbelievable. you would think .. you would HOPE that design people would be the most open-minded and innovative thinkers and would realize the no matter what tools one uses. .. .SU, Max, Pencil and Paper of CHisel and Stone. . .DEsign is design is design.> What difference could it make. What a gang of thugs those guys must be.
I don't want to end up completely unemployed, so I will have to write you a PM about which school fired me, David. Being fired from a studio is a "blacklisting" capital crime, you know, even if it is for silly reasons. I'll never get another job as a studio critic again, anywhere. All because I supported SU as a design tool!
But I can tell you that at the GSD (Harvard's school--where I do not teach, for a number of reasons...I doubt they would have me as a Yalie even if I didn't use SU), SketchUp is software non grata. I had this job with a minor starchitect high in hierarchy there...nothing he was doing required NURBS modeling or even BIM, and certainly the students he hired from his studio had zero competence at either. But to model his big project and produce his publication renderings (and not be harassed about how I was doing it) I had to alter SU's screen colors to resemble Rhino's. Since no one there really knew what Rhino was other than it was suitable for architecture (as SU wasn't), I could get the job done in crash time.
I could actually have just done it in Rhino, but it would have taken four months and not three, of course. Worse interface--although McNeel, unlike Google, has actively updated and improved their software since then.
Most of the stranger-architects writing me about my crime in teaching SketchUp seem to be German, for some reason. Like I said, who has the time for that?
And seeing SU devolve into a content creation tool for things like Lively is going to change their minds?
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you know, from the moment on, when some company sells (affordable) 3D simulation suites with 3D glasses and contact simulation (so that you can actually see and touch things), I will be using 2Live or Lively.
because then I can really go there and meet all of you.
just imagine how much fun it is to sit in a huge SCF Corner Bar, where everyone is allowed to design the place, whenever he likes.
all these people of every part of the world, wearing freaky avatars, creating chairs out of thin air and then sitting on it, creating a circle arround FredBartels who is drawing some beautyful sculptures...
but before that I am definitely not interested in these simulations...
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@unknownuser said:
I don't want to end up completely unemployed, so I will have to write you a PM about which school fired me, David. Being fired from a studio is a "blacklisting" capital crime, you know, even if it is for silly reasons. I'll never get another job as a studio critic again, anywhere. All because I supported SU as a design tool!
Actually I do get it. I have heard reports of Univeristies firing language, philosophy and PolySci Profs for not being PC enuff, or denying tenure for not being in step with that schools line of thinking. . . .Ironic isn't it? Mostly political "conservatives" getting booted from "liberal" instituions. Free thought is good as long as its their "free thought" i guess. I am not ranting about Conservs vs. liberals. . . just pointing out the irony.
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@lewiswadsworth said:
@dale said:
@lewiswadsworth said:
Hmmm...I've noticed more Google team watching this thread.
I hope them Google boys realise they've got a diamond in their hands. A diamond in the rough, but nevertheless. If they find a way to relieve SU's poly limit, and add some functionalities (I'm sure everyone here's got their own list), I'm absolutely certain SU will take the 3D world by storm.
Frankly, I cannot fathom they don't know.
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@unknownuser said:
I hope them Google boys realise they've got a diamond in their hands.
hear, hear, stinkie!
(but I would rahter say, a beautyful, shining "Ruby"
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Once upon a time I was wary about admitting what 3D software I was using for fear of letting the cat out of the bag......these days it is just out of embarrasment.....who is going to admit to their clients they are using BratzUp?...."Eh, yes, the same software they are using for the Lively stuff..hehe...blush......but it's good though...."
SketchUp!!!.....the software best used from a plain brown paper bag!!
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Just as a side note: does anyone knows what the former @last team is doing now?
I mean, Jim Holman and the others. What happened to them? (besides lying somewhere on a beach spending the money earned by selling Sketchup
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Jim Holman retired. A few others left, but many of the original @Lasters are still there, doing much the same job they always did.
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@kwistenbiebel said:
Just as a side note: does anyone knows what the former @last team is doing now?
I mean, Jim Holman and the others. What happened to them? (besides lying somewhere on a beach spending the money earned by selling Sketchup ).I imagine that as part of the terms of the sale of SketchUp they agreed not to develop a similar product for a certain period of time. I
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Might I dare say this has been quite a "Lively" thread!
I have no interest in the online social experiments as such, but I can understand Google's move to address the up and coming young consumer generation. They can sell the advertising to those who don't hesitate, and in fact have a propensity to click. As a parent of 4 between 15 & 18 - I struggle with the amount of time they spend and their gravitation to being on-line. But the reality I have come to is that is how today's young crowd socializes. It infuriates me and amazes me all at the same time.
Now - to emphasize what was stated earlier - I truly hope that Google is watching and listening to us and does understand what an incredible design tool they have. I too have encountered the elitist snobs that stick their nose up at sketchup - architects, designers, and visualizers alike. But, when you meet someone that does use and approve - they are typically the type of individual that is truly excited about their work, and can not wait to show you and discuss what they are doing with SU. When an Architect or Interior Designer shuns such and intuitive design tool - I smile and think of how easy it just was for me to explore 4-5 design options and review them with a boss or peer, or better yet a client. Decisions get made and we move on, and can even produce final presentations / marketing materials before the "others" have even gotten out of the gate.
Google - please leave the current SU free for the "uber-consumer netizens" of tomorrowland. Develop PRO as a big brother application on a multi-core code base that remains open for all of the wonderfull RUBY minds that help to make SU sing! You know - the paying crowd!Bytor
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@bytor said:
Google - please leave the current SU free for the "uber-consumer netizens" of tomorrowland. Develop PRO as a big brother application on a multi-core code base that remains open for all of the wonderfull RUBY minds that help to make SU sing! You know - the paying crowd!
BytorWell said!
In my opinion, the only development really needed is making SU Pro adapted to the new hardware (64 bit, multicore, large RAM). Go Google and make us proud. -
I attended a well known design school on the west coast. I just spoke with a former instructor and they have implemented SU into the core curriculum. It truly is an amazing design tool. I find myself being not just more productive, but having a lot of FUN when using it. It is not just architects - designers in products, entertainment and graphics are also interested in the development of SU as a sophisticated but simple tool. If Google is listening they will be sensitive to the sentiments expressed on this board - I just don't understand why they are so secretive about development. It makes it seem like they are going to do with SU what they are going to do with it, regardless of how its true core users feel about it. Its funny, because even if Google manages to get an entire generation of young users, if they do not further develop the app, then its user base, as it matures, will pursue something else.
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I am not really excited about this...A virtual world concept sounded nice 5 years ago .
Right now it feels like an outdated concept.
Google seems so be over positive about web usage in my opinion.
When the new wears of, people end up just wanting efficiency and not some 'happy virtual world' ..unless you can make money out of it as Gaieus suggests.
I think making it a money game is Googles ultimate goal, just like Google maps will probably be integrated in the moneymaking 'Adword' concept. (pay per click on sponsored map links)[Starting the music]:Now let us all sing the 'Google song'....
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@Google,
Perhaps consider going open source with the Sketchup Pro version.
At least in that way, there is still a chance of further development of our beloved tool.The basic concept of Sketchup as a professional 3D tool is just too valuable to throw away.
It just needs to be developed further.
If you guys aren't planning to consider further Pro development, please open up the SU core to the community (or maybe to a 3td party developer?)....or find another way not to leave Pro users out in the cold.
I am afraid that with the current way of things, Sketchup might end up being not as 'lively' as it was before.
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@gaganraj said:
Its funny, because even if Google manages to get an entire generation of young users, if they do not further develop the app, then its user base, as it matures, will pursue something else.
exactly, gaganraj!
and what is better than having a whole bunch of people, who use your application excessivly and push it to it's limits, reporting to you every day, giving comments, criticism and loads of suggestions of how to improve your product?the Google guys have the best development guide in front of their noses. lets hope they make use of it!
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